Live data from Hacker News

Everything's Blub All Over Again

news.ycombinator.com

61–66 of 66 posts

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#61
post #50
post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My example was obviously a gross simplification, but not all disagreement stems from contradiction. Worse, sometimes when people agree on many points they are in inreconcilable disagreement with each other on others. If we were to consider that both groups have held their position for many years, it should be immediately apparent that it would be impossible for either to change their mind. Time calcifies opinion.

You are using the word "impossible" to mean "very hard", and I am not.

You're right, though I think I would say "extremely difficult, tending toward impossible". People do not change their minds easily, especially on subjects they feel a strong emotional attachment to.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#62
post #15

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

I think your analysis here is suffering from confirmation bias regarding the negative feedback you've recently received.

Looking at the history of your essays on reddit, it seems clear that a) some people like them and some don't, and b) the average redditor likes some of them and dislikes others.

In my case, I've certainly agreed strongly with some of your essays but thought others missed the mark.

Although many commentators seemed quite riled about it, one of your best essays was "Beating the Averages". I read it and immediately recognized myself as a classic Blub programmer. In fact, I decided to cut the cord with VB and start learning Python as a result - and am I ever glad I did that. (Eventually, I may even try my hand at Lisp. Thanks to Python, I already find myself looking at data and seeing lists everywhere.)

Of course it's possible to nitpick whether expressive power exists along a continuum, but in a broad sense, the essay has the clunk of truth. It also necessarily discredits most languages - and by extension, most programmers - so a certain amount of outrage is to be expected.

Even so, it's clear that I'm not the only Blub programmer who read it and decided to try and learn from it instead of barricading myself further inside my suite of Blub idioms.

On the other hand, your essay "Mind the Gap" begs the question by asserting that market value = value and then justifying vast pay differences based on market value. The very issue at hand is whether the unregulated market is good at assigning value to labour; the huge compensation packages offered late last year to the executives of Bear Stearns would seem to cast this assertion in some doubt. Frankly, the entire essay smells a bit self-serving.

These are just two examples. My point is that I don't hate you reflexively, and I always enjoy the push and pull of ideas, which you undertake with gusto.

I do think a lot of people were seriously disappointed with Arc when it came out, especially after all the hype about a 'hundred-year language' had built it up to mythical proportions. To the extent that you spent years dropping such teasers, you have to accept some responsibility for the backlash.

You also have to recognize that if a group of people who like you followed you to News.YC, the bias may actually inhere in this space, not on reddit. That is, by surrounding yourself with people who agree with you, you may be distorting your reaction to a community not composed of what we may pejoratively call PG fanbois.

The most important thing, of course, is that the push and pull of ideas and arguments continues. Don't pick up your toys and go home just because some people disagree with you. In fact, honing your arguments on skeptics can only ultimately improve them.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#63
post #45
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

Paul, this is really paranoid. I use reddit because of familiarity and the number of people on it. BTW, if your intent was to switch everyone to News.YC I think it's sort of mean, considering your relationship with its founders. Did they leave a shitbag on your lawn or something?

News.YC has about 2% of Reddit's traffic, so I don't think the Reddits worry much about it. And I don't want the rest, so they don't have much to worry about in the future either.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#64
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

let's check numbers: "You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss" got 652 up, 248 down, 72% up. Atwood's "Paul Graham's Participatory Narcissism": 438 up, 322 down, 57% up. "The Cliffs Notes": 255 up, 201 down. 56% up. i do not see any signigicant bias here. opinion definitely not "pretty unanimous". you were mistaken.

The numbers you quote are about votes. I didn't say stuff I wrote wouldn't get upvoted on reddit.

Sigh. I feel like I'm posting on reddit right now. That distinctive "no, what I actually said was" spectral signature of arguing with a troll.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#65
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

let's check numbers: "You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss" got 652 up, 248 down, 72% up. Atwood's "Paul Graham's Participatory Narcissism": 438 up, 322 down, 57% up. "The Cliffs Notes": 255 up, 201 down. 56% up. i do not see any signigicant bias here. opinion definitely not "pretty unanimous". you were mistaken.

The numbers you quote are about votes. I didn't say stuff I wrote wouldn't get upvoted on reddit. Sigh. I feel like I'm posting on reddit right now. That distinctive "no, what I actually said was" spectral signature of arguing with a troll.

i'm pretty sure that people who vote on reddit can have opinion, and they intersect in some way with people who comment.

there might be more negative comments, but that's actually a natural phenomenon -- comments of agreement looking like "+1" are generally avoided, but comments of disagreement are typically more meaningful becauae comment author can describe _how_ he disagrees. also, you see, comments like "author is great!" are generally considered asslicking, and hence are inpopular.

so, you cannot realiably judge opinion of mass from comments.

but you can do this from vote number.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#66

> All this no-restraint bashing of an interesting article ("you shouldn't have used the 'lions in cages' metaphor! Now I feel terrible! Bghwaaa-waaa-waaa") is really getting on my nerves. Yes, I think Jeff overreacted too :) Anyone would love to get (really) rich, and founders have a lot better chance of that happening than employees do. So people are upset about not having that chance (at least while they're employe…

not everyone would love to get rich. Certain people want to get rich and some of them work in startups. But even within startups not everyone is trying to get rich. I'm pretty sure Paul didn't start FriendFeed just to make even more money, but I could be wrong.

Well, if someone asked you: "Would you like me to transfer 50 million dollars to your account?" - what would you answer?

What would the "certain people" answer?

"No thanks" ?

Post reply on HN