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Everything's Blub All Over Again

news.ycombinator.com

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Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#41

Post by pim »

pg wrote: post #15
Xichekolas wrote: post #3

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

The conversational style where you take bits of personal experience and elevate them to Universal Truths (or at least leave people with the perception that that's what you're doing) is one that attracts a lot of attention and I assume you know this and think that is a good thing. The miraculous effect here is _not_ the amount of negative attention you get, but the fact that this is attention is so polarized across sites. I suspect reddit is not actually the odd one out here, but rather that the crowd you gathered here at ycombinator are already well into your 'cult of personality' and more accepting of your contraversial approach.

What's important is that you keep the conversation going. If you're going to say stuff that rubs people the wrong way (like your "anyone who didn't found a startup is a caged animal" did), you should either anticipate people's knee-jerk reactions within the piece, or engage them as they come up. If you don't, you risk that people start writing you off as a blow-hard.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#42

Post by killerstorm »

pg wrote: post #15
Xichekolas wrote: post #3

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

let's check numbers: "You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss" got 652 up, 248 down, 72% up.

Atwood's "Paul Graham's Participatory Narcissism": 438 up, 322 down, 57% up.

"The Cliffs Notes": 255 up, 201 down. 56% up.

i do not see any signigicant bias here. opinion definitely not "pretty unanimous".

you were mistaken.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#43

Post by tbone28 »

pg wrote: post #15
Xichekolas wrote: post #3

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

I recently forwarded your essay ("You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss") to a friend and his reply was:

"I can't be reading that right now!"

I figure the reason for this is because you compel people to take more risks. Most people know what they have to do to get what they want but most people don't do it because it is a risk. Your upsetting people's sense of security and feeling alright in the world.

Keep it up.

I heard somewhere once that a group of people in their prime were asked if they could have changed anything in their life what would of it been. The majority of people responded that they would have taken more risks.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#44

Post by 0x44 »

xlnt wrote: post #36
0x44 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's assume there exist two groups of people. The members of group A think that some improved product is better because it tastes great. The members of group B, on the other hand, believe that the same product is better because it's now less filling. Keeping in mind that the product is better because it both tastes great, and is less filling. Which group is mistaken? Which group would benefit from changing their min…

Their ideas don't really contradict. But they think they do because, apparently, both sides have the mistaken view that a product has to be better for exactly one reason.

My example was obviously a gross simplification, but not all disagreement stems from contradiction. Worse, sometimes when people agree on many points they are in inreconcilable disagreement with each other on others. If we were to consider that both groups have held their position for many years, it should be immediately apparent that it would be impossible for either to change their mind. Time calcifies opinion.

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#45

Post by xamdam »

pg wrote: post #15
Xichekolas wrote: post #3

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

Paul, this is really paranoid. I use reddit because of familiarity and the number of people on it. BTW, if your intent was to switch everyone to News.YC I think it's sort of mean, considering your relationship with its founders. Did they leave a shitbag on your lawn or something?

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#46

Post by brianh »

pg wrote: post #15
Xichekolas wrote: post #3

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

Two possibilities here:

People (speaking in generalities here) follow the patterns that they know and with which they are comfortable. In particular, the mass media which seems to feel that: If it ain't controversial/sensational, make it so (by ignoring major details and/or context). If we can't make it so, we'll not speak of it.

Original thinking does not come easily to most people. One of the easiest way for some people to prove their self worth is to criticize another's work (or attempt to, even if it is about the color of the shed ;) ). The bigger that someone else is, the better. Right now, your one of the big guys.

The price of fame and fortune...

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#47

Post by ojbyrne »

tbone28 wrote: post #43
pg wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

I recently forwarded your essay ("You Weren't Meant to Have a Boss") to a friend and his reply was: "I can't be reading that right now!" I figure the reason for this is because you compel people to take more risks. Most people know what they have to do to get what they want but most people don't do it because it is a risk. Your upsetting people's sense of security and feeling alright in the world. Keep it up. I heard…

Your last sentence sounds like a great example of survivorship bias. The ones who took more risks are all dead ;-)

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#48

Post by brzozan »

pg wrote: post #15
Xichekolas wrote: post #3

I'm just sick of hearing about it. This is like the OJ Simpson trial of hacker news. Or I should say Reddit. The responses here were fairly normal until someone pointed out that reddit-ers were freaking out about it. I really hate to beat the old 'reddit is teh dumb' dead horse, but it kind of seems like it sometimes. I think someone read into that essay what he wanted in a search for controversy, and then a lot of p…

The situation with reddit is a unique one. I think I'm the only person who both writes a lot and started a news site. Not surprisingly, people who like what I write tended to switch to that news site. The switch was particularly extreme in the case of reddit, because News.YC is in a sense an offshoot of reddit: most people who switched from another site to this one came from there. The result is that practically anyo…

Paul, any chance to accept a possibility, that they write "we do not agree with this particular Paul's essay" because they do not agree with what you wrote in this particular article, not because they don't like you as a person? Maybe some of them acutally don't like you, but I am quite sure this is not true for everybody.

If you publish something (in any media) you will get different opinions. Some people will agree, some will not. Some will express support, some will express critique. You can respond to that, they can respond to your response etc. This is called discussion. As a result of discussion some people will change their mind, and some will simply agree that they don't agree. Especially when the subject is life style, where there is no "one size fits all". I like spinach, others don't. You feel free in startup, I don't (taking care of non-technical stuf, bleeeeh).

The other thing is that written word (like your essays) is taken more seriously than if it was said by mouth, so the lions metaphor would be absolutely not a problem if said over a beer, but when written it left impression, that you call "corporate" folks' lives a piece of crap, while some of them CHOSE corporate as giving THEM more freedom (by some definition of freedom) than startup.

As simple as that - no size fits all, people care about different things, leaving impression, that their life is worse because of that will do no good.

Cheers!

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#49

Post by brzozan »

xlnt wrote: post #33
gruseom wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're assuming that people want to hear the truth. That is not at all what most people want. And if you insist on offering it to them against their desires they will eat you like (dare I say) a caged lion. :)

They might not want the truth now, but they could be shown why it's good to want it, and shown how much nicer that lifestyle is, and helped to change. Hard but certainly possible.

This lifestyle is nicer FOR YOU. Not necessarily FOR THEM.

If I like spinach and you don't, how will you show me, that not eating spinach is nicer? Or the other way around?

Re: Everything's Blub All Over Again

#50

Post by xlnt »

0x44 wrote: post #44
xlnt wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Their ideas don't really contradict. But they think they do because, apparently, both sides have the mistaken view that a product has to be better for exactly one reason.

My example was obviously a gross simplification, but not all disagreement stems from contradiction. Worse, sometimes when people agree on many points they are in inreconcilable disagreement with each other on others. If we were to consider that both groups have held their position for many years, it should be immediately apparent that it would be impossible for either to change their mind. Time calcifies opinion.

You are using the word "impossible" to mean "very hard", and I am not.
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