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DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

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Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#61
post #5

There aren't really any facts here just pure emotion that you would hear in any industry where costs are cut. I've no idea how fairly these pilots are paid. But surely there are regulations about pilot rest just like on commercial flights. And a pilot cannot really pull heart strings about being away from home when they chose that line of work where your job is literally to be away from home all the time.

Industry costs magically cut while Bezos is almost the richest person on the planet. And Amazon is a behemoth doing incredibly well. Very competitive industry. Costs must be cut. Let's talk about the metrics. Employees live to work, if they are not working what's the point on their existence? /s To me all of this points to the need for unions to return. Without the threat of communism there is nothing to keep this class of people from abusing workers, just to show the world they are not just about money, and creating good working conditions and good jobs. To them it's like a game, like a simulation, an RTS, the people don't matter. Their lives don't matter. Only thing that matters is the bottom line. I personally prefer Bezos was a mere millionaire, his company wasn't doing that well, and that his workers had relatively good jobs. How about you?

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#62
post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair, the emotional approach is what actually works in the vast majority of cases. Normal people don't connect with or understand facts. I think this might be a case of content audience mismatch.

"The essential characteristic of the Argument from Intimidation is its appeal to moral self-doubt and its reliance on the fear, guilt or ignorance of the victim. It is used in the form of an ultimatum demanding that the victim renounce a given idea without discussion, under threat of being considered morally unworthy. The pattern is always: “Only those who are evil (dishonest, heartless, insensitive, ignorant, etc.)…

etherael doesn't appear to be supporting the logical clout of that type of argument, but rather commenting on its ubiquity in modern public discourse and success in driving policy.

E.g., "think of the children," "if we don't X, the terrorists win," or "we must censor the Internet or undermine crypto, because it enables Y."

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#63
post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

Isn't this exactly the definition of capitalism and what is at the basis of the entire American economy? You can complain that a foreign company is hiring you for what you consider below-par payment, but unless you find a better paying job elsewhere, isn't this what capitalism is all about? Next to that - aren't American companies doing exactly the same? Why does IBM have more employees in India (80.000 I believe) than it has in the US? Not because the weather is so great in Bangalore - because the people work for $3000 per year(!!).

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#65
The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker.

He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay pressure due to companies skirting regulations. That exec mgmt gets massive bonsuses while the pilots work very long hours and (probably unpaid) overtime offends one's sense of justice.

Pay has been stagnant for the vast majority of workers for decades. We should be doing something about it, not dismissing it. Capitalism is a great tool for progress, but it should not, and is not, the answer to everything. Human dignity matters.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#66

> At another DHL carrier, pilots went on strike for two days after a year of regularly being forced to cover overtime shifts due to short-staffing. Sounds like they need to do more of that. Is there a surplus of pilots waiting in line for jobs? This isn't the first time I've heard that pilots get paid very little and have to work incredibly long hours. Are there no unions?

I'd like them to define "forced", I don't think there really is any mechanism for an employer to compel anyone to do things. People learn to fly because they like flying, it is fun. Because people like to fly, the going rate for piloting is low. If people didn't like flying so much, the rates would be higher.

At very low wage levels, near the subsistence level, the supply curve may also be curved backwards for a completely different reason. That effect creates an "inverted S" or "backward S" shape: a tail is added at the bottom of the labour-supply curve shown in the graph above with the quantity of labour-time supplied falling as wages rise. Then, because families face some minimum level of income needed to meet their subsistence requirements, lowering wages increases the amount of labour-time offered for sale. Similarly, a rise in wages can cause a decrease in the amount of labour-time offered for sale, and individuals take advantage of the higher wage to spend time on needed self- or family-maintenance activities. [3] [4]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backward_bending_supply_curv...

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#67

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

Ehh, i mean for how much longer do we actually need pilots? I was under the impression they're mostly auto pilot these days anyway.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#68
post #60

> We work long hours, fly in dangerous conditions and go through years of training, but we do it because we understand that our work is vital to keeping our economy humming. No. Pilots become pilots because they love flying and because it pays well (mostly the former). Haven't heard of any pilot who chose the job because it's important for the economy.

Isn't this exactly the definition of capitalism and what is at the basis of the entire American economy? You can complain that a foreign company is hiring you for what you consider below-par payment, but unless you find a better paying job elsewhere, isn't this what capitalism is all about? Next to that - aren't American companies doing exactly the same? Why does IBM have more employees in India (80.000 I believe) th…

of course! and there is nothing wrong with it.

but it's disingenuous to claim you're motivated by something else in your pleading.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#69
post #61
post #5

There aren't really any facts here just pure emotion that you would hear in any industry where costs are cut. I've no idea how fairly these pilots are paid. But surely there are regulations about pilot rest just like on commercial flights. And a pilot cannot really pull heart strings about being away from home when they chose that line of work where your job is literally to be away from home all the time.

Industry costs magically cut while Bezos is almost the richest person on the planet. And Amazon is a behemoth doing incredibly well. Very competitive industry. Costs must be cut. Let's talk about the metrics. Employees live to work, if they are not working what's the point on their existence? /s To me all of this points to the need for unions to return. Without the threat of communism there is nothing to keep this cl…

Well actually most of Bezos's wealth is in Amazon stock. Which he has to sell to make money. Its really not your gold-bricks-in-basement-vault money. Most of which he won't be selling till he dies. And that will go into some trust which will be owned by his descendants as inheritance.

The real thing about communism or capitalism isn't much about the merit of the idea in itself.

The quality of the political system that implements these ideas, efficiency of execution matters.

Re: DHL pilot alleges poor labor practices that are spreading throughout industry

#70

The lack of empathy in the comments is disconcerting. The post is a bit light on details (though the example given of flying 23 hours back-to-back continental flights is terrible if regular) the post deserves better than: 1. Pilots fly for fun. You made the wrong career move. 2. Capitalism! 3. you're lucky - imagine if you were a warehouse worker. He's a pilot, not an accountant or lawyer. He knows that there is pay…

He is blaming a foreign company which is hiring his own comapny for failures his company is not adressing. Sorry stupid article. I´s not DHL´s fault that Southern Airline is not able to compete and to organize. Btw in Germany there are Unions for that. https://www.vcockpit.de/en.html
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