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Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

theregister.co.uk

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Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#61

Post by astrodust »

pjmlp wrote: post #47
spdegabrielle wrote: post #34

Sounds like good news for C++ developers? I'm assuming C#/.net carries the same risk, and C/C++ does not.

I doubt most enterprises would be willing to go back to C++.

C++ is as much as dead in the enterprise outside of a few niche concerns. It's just too hard to get right.

C# and Java are significantly more forgiving and for most use cases are perfectly adequate. Performance is a reasonable concern, but not the primary driver of language choice.

If you look at the sort of Java code some people churn out in an enterprise environment you'd be glad they weren't using C++ which has significantly more sharp edges. Throwing random exceptions isn't as bad as periodically segfaulting for no apparent reason.

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#62

Post by ninofloris »

spdegabrielle wrote: post #34

Sounds like good news for C++ developers? I'm assuming C#/.net carries the same risk, and C/C++ does not.

Dotnet is fully open source (mit licensed) for more than a year now. Let's just say I knew which of the two ecosystems to pick half a year ago for a new project. Java (as an ecosystem) is going down the drain as oracle has no clue what the dev world wants and where they are pivoting towards. Commercial frameworks and commercial languages are fast on their way out.

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#63

Post by astrodust »

sixbrx wrote: post #29
wolfgke wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Probably because Java runs without problems on Windows and IX platforms without major problems. Probably because Java runs without problems on (Windows) and ( IX platforms without major problems). FTFY ;-)

I've been using Java on Linux in production for more than 7 years and have never had any problems associated with the OS choice.

There are operating systems with "major problems" out there. Linux isn't the only *IX.

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#65

Post by yrro »

astrodust wrote: post #55
alfalfasprout wrote: post #36

One thing Oracle doesn't seem to understand is that the whole "milk it till it's dry" strategy won't last forever. Everything they touch is a catastrophe. Oracle database? Bloated, absurdly expensive, and blown away by PostgreSQL. If you really want bulletproof reliability and absurd throughput then DB2 on a mainframe is a better choice. Virtualbox? Bloated, slow, and much more buggy than VMware's offerings. ERP soft…

Don't forget MySQL. It's not that Oracle ruins properties, the same could be said of Microsoft over the years, but that they tastelessly ruin them. Bundling the Ask Toolbar with Java is absolutely insulting. Not even Adobe stoops that low.

Hudson too...

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#66

Post by jmiserez »

The one thing that truly matters is how they determine if your use is "embedded" or not. And they left the answer out of the FAQ:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/articles/javase/faqs-jsp-1...

>Frequently Asked Questions

>Is Java still free?

>The current version of Java - Java SE 8 - is free and available for redistribution for general purpose computing. Java SE continues to be available under the Oracle Binary Code License (BCL) free of charge. JRE use for embedded devices and other computing environments may require a license fee from Oracle. Read more about embedded use of Java SE or contact your local Oracle sales representative to obtain a license.

Also, this link has more info on specific features that cost money, aside from the embedded vs general purpose issue:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/javase/terms/products...

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#67

Post by fusiongyro »

satysin wrote: post #13

There is so much negativity around Java that I wonder why anyone starting on their journey to becoming a programmer would want to learn it or work with it.

I wouldn't start with it. It has its charms, but they're mostly evident after you've been burned by the breakneck pace of change in other ecosystems. MJD's "Why I like Java" is probably the best article about it:

http://blog.plover.com/prog/Java.html

I'm a little more affirmative of it than he is. But yeah, I definitely would not begin my journey with this. Start with Python. Javascript, maybe.

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#68

Post by eropple »

mahyarm wrote: post #46
patates wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Go doesn't share any kind of similarity in purpose, methodology or audience with Java. Or maybe you were being sarcastic?

It fits the generic GC performant network server designed for large teams in mind. A large segment in Java land.

I would say that Go is designed for small teams. Minimal compiler safety and generally weak code reuse (outside of code generation, which...no) under the guise of "just microservice all the things."

It is an okay analogue to Java 1.4. But the state of the art is significantly further along, and OpenJDK+Kotlin (or Scala, if you're adventurous) is a significantly more well-considered alternative that fits much better into a Java workflow (not that those Java workflows are in danger in the first place, given that they don't use any version of Java that is outside the license).

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#69

Post by jmiserez »

astrodust wrote: post #60
norea-armozel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think he means in jest that people have constantly talked about Stallman's quirks that are honestly gross but shouldn't take away from what he says regarding technology.

His "quirks" are what harms his message. The same could be said for his long-time collaborator ESR who has some quirks that are beyond eating shit from his feet. You want a spokesperson for something they better be worthy of respect. That's their primary function. It's not being a sage of truth. People listen to those they respect, and his behaviour at times is so out of line that he spends more time destroying his c…

People sometimes are just thick, focusing on "quirks" instead of the content.

I get that people might disagree with his views, but why would they think he's not worthy of respect?

Re: Oracle finally targets Java non-payers six years after plucking Sun

#70

Post by jongalloway2 »

spdegabrielle wrote: post #34

Sounds like good news for C++ developers? I'm assuming C#/.net carries the same risk, and C/C++ does not.

.NET is under MIT license (https://github.com/Microsoft/dotnet/blob/master/LICENSE) and there's also a patent promise (https://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/openspecifications/dn646766). There isn't an "enterprise .NET" version for sale. There are enterprise versions of Visual Studio, servers, etc., but nothing you could feasibly be "accidentally" using, and nothing that you have to use to do .NET dev.

What specific risk(s) are you thinking about?

Disclaimer: Microsoft employee, Nazgûl

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