Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland • Hacker News Board

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#61

Post by outotrai » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 1:24 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #48

btilly wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard about you guys on NPR, but didn't call in because I was driving. I have a few concerns. 1. Your basic value proposition rests on getting people to pay money to have the ability to respond to things said about them. That's going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. 2. Many people (like me) have deliberately chosen to not join facebook. We can't even try to address issues we see. 3. Identity is much more co…

Many people (like me) have deliberately chosen to not join facebook. We can't even try to address issues we see. I wouldn't call this "can't". If you actually couldn't use their preferred identity provider, that would be different (and it could happen; I had a lot of trouble getting a Facebook account at all a few years back, due to my unusual name). But choosing not to sign up is not the same as not being able to si…

I think he means that he shouldn't be obligated to sign up for or get involved with any service that he doesn't want to just to protect his reputation. Sure, you don't have to pay the mafia protection money, but what happens if you don't?

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#62

Post by alttab » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 2:20 PM UTC

alttab wrote: post #55

Let me take a moment to rebut this. "Stick with me and you'll get rich kid" I've heard of CEOs who actually sat their employees down and showed them how rich they'd be based on what price the company is sold for. ("If we sell for a billion, I get a jet and you get a yacht.") I've had someone tell me this before (read my iStoleYourStartup post) and I sort-of got the feeling from the beginning it was a sham. I played a…

My message of "take responsibility, accountability, and ownership of your own destiny" gets voted down. When you're 40 and still a worker bee and wonder why it didn't work out for you come back to this post.

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#63

Post by stretchwithme » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 2:34 PM UTC

goodmitton wrote: post #42

stretchwithme wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

my biggest weakness is my inability to acknowledge how truly great I am. :-)

Although that's most likely true, unfortunately, based on my research, I haven't seen anywhere that says that is an acceptable answer. I know. Sad isn't it?

ha, ha, of course, since by making the claim that one is great means you don't really have a problem acknowledging that you're great.

Maybe the best answer is that one's greatest weakness is being OCD about fixing one's weaknesses :-)

And for a serious answer: I spend too much time worrying about weaknesses when I should be delegating affected tasks to others while I focus on tasks that play to my strengths.

Or: If I don't do something well, I delegate it to someone who can and get back to doing what I do best.

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#64

Post by btilly » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 2:37 PM UTC

randallsquared wrote: post #48

btilly wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I heard about you guys on NPR, but didn't call in because I was driving. I have a few concerns. 1. Your basic value proposition rests on getting people to pay money to have the ability to respond to things said about them. That's going to leave a bad taste in people's mouths. 2. Many people (like me) have deliberately chosen to not join facebook. We can't even try to address issues we see. 3. Identity is much more co…

Many people (like me) have deliberately chosen to not join facebook. We can't even try to address issues we see. I wouldn't call this "can't". If you actually couldn't use their preferred identity provider, that would be different (and it could happen; I had a lot of trouble getting a Facebook account at all a few years back, due to my unusual name). But choosing not to sign up is not the same as not being able to si…

In NPR they said that they had checks that your Facebook account was sufficiently well established. They didn't say the exact criteria, but my impression was that it needed to have existed for a certain time, and have had certain levels of activity on it. This is to prevent people from creating throw away accounts, commenting libelously, then disappearing.

The unintended consequence, of course, is that people who don't have a Facebook account can't just create one. Instead you have to create one, use it until you have a sufficiently well-established identity, and only then can you use their service. Which is a high barrier for people who actually don't have a Facebook account.

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#65

Post by stewiecat » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 2:41 PM UTC

io wrote: post #53

tptacek wrote: post #2

Turnover rate: a FANTASTIC question to ask at your next job interview. Keep them on their toes. We love the people who ask hard questions. If the person interviewing you doesn't: don't work there. Thanks for that post.

Somebody needs to mention that really low turnover can also be a sign of problems. People don't often leave jobs where they're asked to do very little. It can be a sign of a lazy, unambitious culture.

The last place I was at had an extremely low turnover for precisely this reason. The devs had all been there for 8+ years and didn't really have to do anything. The bar was set so low there was no motivation to leave. Managed to stick it out for 6 months before I ran from the place.

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#66

Post by geebee » Thu, Apr 29, 2010, 3:19 PM UTC

This is an aside, but I'm starting to realize how many gripes, on both sides, are the result of a very poor hiring system.

Kathy Sierra, a while back, wrote a truly eye-opening blog post on "the hollywood model". You're fired at the end of every job, and your job security is your reputation.

I don't love everything about the way hollywood works, of course, but one thing's for sure - they give credit. They list credits. Of course, people can grab credit they haven't earned, and I'm sure that people who have succeeded don't always get the credit they are due... but at least the system intends to give credit.

As a dev, when was the last time you got a by-line? If you release an excellent product, is there a "credits" list where the UI designer, the "producers" (proj managers?), developers are listed? Maybe in the code itself, but that's proprietary.

So instead out industry relies on these stupid indicators, which lead to articles about how "job hoppers are bad". Well, some job hoppers are people who opportunistically abandon a good team that doesn't deserve it, and others are people who people who are too good to waste any more time on a crap situation.

Job hopping, code tests, three minute phone call reference checks, university degrees... hey, I use these things too when I'm hiring. That's what you do when you interview unknown people whose work you can't immediately identify. And I do the monkey dance when I'm interviewed too, because that's what you have to do.

But man, there has got to be a better way... a big goal of my career is to get to the point where the people who interview me have better ways of knowing what I can contribute.

Re: Let’s Admit Why There Are So Many “Job Hoppers” In Startupland

#67

Post by msuster » Sat, May 01, 2010, 6:45 PM UTC

mendriacus wrote: post #43

This whole discussion about "job hoppers" is so bogus. Employment is a relationship. It has two sides. When one party decides to end it, the most common reasons are: 1) Other party's chronic inability to respond and satisfy the breaker-upper's needs. 2) A competitor coming along who satisfies those needs much better. Employers regularly break up employment relations for those two reasons. But now some CEOs and VC man…

You're way off base. - I haven't lost any employees so painting me with that brush is wrong - I never made any commentary on the guy who left Mahalo - I wrote him a private email making it clear that my commentary had nothing to do with him (I didn't even know that story when I wrote my post) - I never publicly insulted anybody - I made a balanced argument that if people leave a few employers early in their careers it's fine. If they make a career out of changing jobs they'll find it hard in the long-run to wind up in senior positions.

And while we're on the topic of insulting posts or people on a rant, why don't you re-read your text and think about how IT sounds