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Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

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Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#61

Post by gshulegaard »

0xcde4c3db wrote: post #16
beefsack wrote: post #3

It's easy to see this is but one side to the story from the level of emotion in the blog post. Does anyone have more information regarding the decision itself? The post also misses the second half of the paragraph, which suggests a method to get emoji working again: If some symbols, such as emoji, do not display, we suggest to install an appropriate font, such as Symbola; then they will be displayed, albeit without t…

I tried to hunt it down, but the trail went cold at a message [1] in which YAMAMOTO Mitsuharu refers to an unspecified "discussion about the inclusion of the Mac port". My best guess is that a broader policy decision about not supporting Mac-specific features in mainline was made a while ago, and this was something that slipped through in a bigger merge. [1] https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-01/msg0…

Thank for this! Good piece of detective work.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#62

Post by digi_owl »

alayne wrote: post #51
digi_owl wrote: post #33

And here i can't grok the appeal of emojis outside the tween girls segment...

Seems like they are generally popular: http://www.adweek.com/news/advertising-branding/infographic-...

Once more i find myself worried about the "positive" feedback loop found in mass media, marketing, and popular culture...

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#63

Post by astevens »

20 years ago the FSF had some very forward-looking ideas. Now we have the ornery opinion of old men - it was good enough for us two decades ago, it's good enough for you now.

The point of free as in speech and not free as in beer is that the choice you make does not need to be right or wrong by the standards of other humans. Holding back technology because it's not available on "your" platform is just as monopolistic as any corporate entity they have butted heads with.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#64

Post by robert_tweed »

vilhelm_s wrote: post #7

And several other Mac features were stopped before they made it into the official release. This is Richard Stallman's policy: "GNU Emacs should never offer people a practical reason to use some other system instead of GNU. Therefore, when someone implements a useful new feature but only for a non-GNU system, we do not accept it that form." https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2015-12/msg01... https://lists.…

Seems to be a lot of hate for this policy, but the goal is simply universal interoperability, which is laudible. Otherwise we might as well go back to the days of IE6, since apparently there is absolutely no problem with Embrace-Extend-Extinguish, as long as we can have emojis on our Macbooks.

Edit: I should add that, since it doesn't appear to be a true interop issue, it may not be a sound decision here. I'm defending the rationale for the policy, not this particular application of it.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#65

Post by tedunangst »

lilyball wrote: post #43
jordigh wrote: post #27

As one of GNU's flagship products, why shouldn't Emacs remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users? GNU has an agenda, just like Apple does. Intel cripples icc for non-Intel CPUs, making it emit pessimised assembler. Apple makes sure that its hardware only works with other Apple products and that macOS can only be legally virtualised on Apple hardware. Everyone has an agenda. The diff…

Deliberately crippling your product on Apple platforms does not in any way "remind users that it is not in agreement with Apple's treatment of its users". In fact, it's fairly ironic that, in an attempt to protest someone else's treatment of users, Emacs has decided to treat its users badly. Deliberately crippling Emacs will not make Apple change, and will not get people to switch away from Apple platforms. But what…

Defective by design...

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#66

Post by Annatar »

jimmies wrote: post #45
gok wrote: post #22

"Therefore, when someone implements a useful new feature but only for a non-GNU system, we do not accept it that form." Users of non-GNU systems that use GNU software: the FSF is actively trying to make your life more difficult.

Just as if you don't agree with Apple, you are welcome to use the alternatives. If you don't agree with GNU, you are welcome to use the alternatives.

That's exactly how this is going to go down, at least in my case.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#67

Post by Annatar »

SapphireSun wrote: post #60
Annatar wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You should not identify yourself with Apple's operating system. If I want I will identify myself with whatever I decide to identify myself with; I don't really care about Apple, but now you've turned it into a matter of principle, moralizing what people shouldn't do. You should not identify yourself with GNU/Linux. How did you like that? How about identifying oneself with JustWorks(SM), vertical integration, and thin…

Then you will find yourself compromised when using software made by another school of thought. shrug

Compromised in what way?

There are other, non-GNU free software alternatives out there.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#68

Post by icebraining »

astevens wrote: post #63

20 years ago the FSF had some very forward-looking ideas. Now we have the ornery opinion of old men - it was good enough for us two decades ago, it's good enough for you now. The point of free as in speech and not free as in beer is that the choice you make does not need to be right or wrong by the standards of other humans. Holding back technology because it's not available on "your" platform is just as monopolistic…

The point of free as in speech and not free as in beer is that the choice you make does not need to be right or wrong by the standards of other humans.

No, it may be yours, but I'm pretty sure that was never the FSF's point. Not now, and not 20 years ago.

Holding back technology because it's not available on "your" platform is just as monopolistic as any corporate entity they have butted heads with.

- It's not "their" platform, it's free platforms.

- The tech is still available, it just won't be included in their official release. Other MacOS ports are free to use it.

Re: Bye Bye Emojis: Emacs Hates MacOS

#69

Post by [deleted] »

kitsunesoba wrote: post #54
failrate wrote: post #34

As a product developer, maintaining a consistent feature set across OSes makes perfect sense to me. It is a struggle to get consistent behavior across different versions of Windows, let alone entirely different OS types.

Some level of consistency is absolutely desirable but I'm not sure that full-on lowest common denominator is the right approach.

[deleted]
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