Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B • Hacker News Board

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#61

Post by unabst » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:11 PM UTC

thisisbad wrote: post #15

Corporate income taxes should be eliminated. Instead of focusing on building a company and good products, companies have to dedicate resources to figure out how to escape the taxation. Taxation should be done when profit is distributed to shareholders (similar to Estonia). There is also unfair double taxation - paying taxes after company pays them.

Actually this is not as bad as most people assume. Companies should mostly re-invest, so should have no income. They should only have growth.

Taxing profit is taxing the reward (a delusion of money produced after all operations), which is what's suppose to justify it. But taxing growth is taxing the company itself (taxing the operations). Taxing shares or dividends would be taxing rewards.

Apple has generated a boatload of income tax and sales tax and capital gains tax, and these numbers are usually left out of corporate tax news pieces.

That said, Amazon being able to escape sales tax early was bad. Also individuals avoiding income tax through shell companies in tax havens is also bad. At least worse than global corporations escaping the US corporate tax...

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#62

Post by raverbashing » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:13 PM UTC

mentos wrote: post #45

I often wonder about a tax system that just works on inflation. Why does a govt go out of its way to collect taxes if it's also going to print money? To me it's so that you can tax different entities at different rates. But if we're willing to adopt a flat tax of X% I wonder if it could be collected through inflating everyone's dollar?

This is a very good way of making the poor even more poor

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#63

Post by pikzen » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

tn13 wrote: post #17

maaaats wrote: post #2

How can countries avoid the spiral of death with taxing? I hate how google, facebook etc. makes hundreds of millions in my country, but barely pay taxes. While local companies do.

Why do you think paying taxes is a virtue ? Why does US government need 40% of our hard earned money ? May be American politicians should stop the war on drugs, wars in far off countries and medicare and reduce tax levels to 20%. Facebook, Google, Apple and push the frontiers of human knowledge at rapid rate if they can spend that money themselves. In case of government it will be used to by some junk airforce planes…

Because unless you never use government built infrastructure, contributing back to society is kind of your duty.

I live in France, my employer pays my raw salary in taxes, and approximately 30% of this raw salary that I get is paid in taxes too. And I am happy to pay those because it contributes to a system that gives me and everyone free healthcare, unemployment benefits if needed as well as many other things. If you're unhappy with the 40% you pay to your government, ask to fix inefficiencies, not to stop paying them.

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#64

Post by kuschku » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:14 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #40

gooserock wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But this whole game is inherently one where some governments will lose. If countries are free to set their own corporate tax rates, you'll get some with high rates and some with lower, and corporations - which can relocate in a way that a state cannot - will just gravitate from the high end to the low end, screwing over those at the high end. That is the problem: we live in a world where business can be global, but o…

will just gravitate from the high end to the low end, screwing over those at the high end Gov'ts are providing a service. Competition is a good thing. If one company was charging $1K for a computer and another charging $500k for the exact same thing, would you say consumers are screwing over the first company when they buy from the 2nd company?

So you propose we have no social services, schools, etc?

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#65

Post by mnx » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:15 PM UTC

jonas21 wrote: post #53

thinkdevcode wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to invest in Amazon if it doesn't meet your expectations.

Taxes on profits would be deferred indefinitely. This increases everyone else's share of the tax burden regardless of whether they've invested in the company.

If they make no profit, aren't they essentially running a charity for the efficient delivery of paper towels and power adapters?

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#66

Post by civilian » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:16 PM UTC

elgabogringo wrote: post #12

And Facebook COO Just endorsed Hillary publicly on FB, the day after WSJ reported that Hillary has taken $48.5 Million from hedgefunds/Wall Street vs $19,000 for Donald Trump. We know who is on the little people's side in this election.

Incase you're wondering, your comment is kinda tinfoily-hat and it's off-topic from the main discussion of company valuation and tax strategies.

I'd also add the caveat-- are you sure who is buying who here? The next President has some power to make Wall Street's life difficult. I suspect that the donations that Wall Street gives is more of a Clinton-shake-down than it is a bribe from Wall Street.

Additionally, these analyses simply group individual donations in with whatever company the individual works at. Does this mean that the company I work for is schemeing to make /R(?:on|and) Paul/ president? Hell no. It's the individual's money to donate, and just because they have a successful career in the finance industry their political donations come into question. Do you have any idea how insulting you're being to the true Clinton supporters who work in finance?

It just feels very conspiratorial and small-minded. With a dash of wealth envy.

IDK. I could easily be accused of being a shill, but I've never heard a solid argument presented from your camp. It's always "look at this coincidence!! What else could it mean?!?!"

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#67

Post by jsmith0295 » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

spyspy wrote: post #52

Pxtl wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tax capital gains as income.

And watch participation in the stock market fall off a cliff.

Probably not. Assuming your goal was to leave the tax level about the same, you'd just have it all coming out as income tax on an individual rather than taxing it twice.

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#68

Post by uiri » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

refurb wrote: post #36

lukateake wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Serious question: who pays an effective rate of 40 percent? Many of these huge corporate entities are in the single or negative digits.

That's because they are deferring the taxes on the ex-US money. It's a 401k in the US. It's a tax deferment, not a tax break. If your effective rate went from 35% to 25% due to your 401k contribution, you still end up paying 35%, just not right now.

No, you don't end up paying 35%. Part of the advantages of a 401k come from distributing dollars being taxed at a high marginal rate to another year when they are taxed at a lower marginal rate.

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#69

Post by jsprogrammer » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:17 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #42

billyhoffman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with taxes or business efficiency. The IRS is saying that Facebook undervalued their assets when transferring them to Ireland. It's the implications of that deal that are being discussed

This is 100% about taxes. The only reason the IRS cares about valuing assets is for the amount of tax they can levy on them. And saving $5B sounds darn efficient to me.

It is stealing, if it was intentionally undervalued to avoid a tax.

Re: Facebook Tax Bill Over Ireland Move Could Cost $5B

#70

Post by koralatov » Sat, Jul 30, 2016, 6:21 PM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #42

billyhoffman wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This has nothing to do with taxes or business efficiency. The IRS is saying that Facebook undervalued their assets when transferring them to Ireland. It's the implications of that deal that are being discussed

This is 100% about taxes. The only reason the IRS cares about valuing assets is for the amount of tax they can levy on them. And saving $5B sounds darn efficient to me.

I know for sure that if I underdeclare the value of my holdings or my income, I'll be punished when caught, and I don't consider that unfair. I might disagree with the amount I'm taxed, but I don't disagree that I should contribute something to society through paying tax.

The difference as I see it is that companies usually operate as if they believe they shouldn't pay any tax. I realise that minimising tax burden is a form of efficiency, but the challenging part here is deciding where 'efficient' ends and 'dishonest' starts. I honestly don't know, but I'd say it's pretty clear that, at some point, underdeclaring the value of corporate holdings starts being dishonest.