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“Facebook has destroyed the open web”

ibtimes.co.uk

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Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#61

Post by curun1r »

vinceguidry wrote: post #16

The article is as stupid as the website it's on is. Value-added sharing mechanisms that take the expertise out of creating useful Internet content does not de-democratize the Internet. You are still as free as before to make your own websites and share your content the way it was done before Facebook. Facebook is popular but that can't be held against it. More generally, populism by itself does not threaten democracy…

I used to think that. Then my parents found Facebook and started using it. Their friends send them interesting content, which comes to their inbox where they consume it. Then, they do the natural thing and forward it to me if they think I'll find it interesting. Now, I have hundreds, if not thousands, of emails in my inbox with links that, if I click them, require me to login as my parents if I want to see the content.

The fact that Facebook doesn't send pure hyperlinks but, instead, links that funnel through Facebook to be authenticated and tracked, is extremely annoying and dangerous to a free and open web.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#62

Post by developer2 »

fny wrote: post #60
developer2 wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd advocate a bit towards the opposite: why does it matter? The future of technology is probably going to wind up being entirely based on walled ecosystems anyway. If you own a MacBook, it's already very enticing to tie that in with an iPhone, etc. It's all about tight integration. I'd also say there is not a single existing system that exists yet which provides the kind of tight integration I'm dreaming of. I'm tal…

Part of the reason for the rant against the walled garden is that it threatens a developers ability to innovate without being threatened/limited/taxed/replaced by the gatekeeper. Whether that's better for consumers is debatable (plethora of choice isn't necessary a good thing), but devs definitely give up a lot of power and leverage to the landlord.

This assumes an ecosystem based on apps from 3rd party developers. The real power is in having the company that is providing the system to also provide all the core functionality. Offloading the responsibility to "carry the platform" on 3rd party developers is a large part of the reason why no ecosystem provides an experience of integration that is satisfying. The first company to fully develop a system/platform that doesn't rely on 3rd party devs for basic development will be the first company that matches my vision of the future.

"Apps" from a large arsenal of companies instantly throws away any concept of uniformity. My bet is that the future holds fully walled gardens. To the point where, for example, every game you play will be released by the company that created the platform you choose. Even if it's just ports of a base game, that port will be released by the system creator, not the game developer/publisher. We just need the creators of the ecosystem to prioritize developing the entire system itself, rather than the current situation where they rely on 3rd party devs and attempt to reign control over them.

From what we've seen thus far, I am simply not confident that any platform will ever provide a fully immersive and integrated experience if it relies on SDKs and supposed "standards". The idea of a "standard" that actually gets followed to the letter is so far a mythical beast. I don't want my home automation system made up of devices from 20 different companies doing their "best" to interoperate properly. I want a single company to provide all the devices, and have them work flawlessly.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#63

Post by herbst »

5ilv3r wrote: post #28
drivingmenuts wrote: post #12

Facebook hasn't destroyed the web - it's still there and functioning fine. Hyperlinks still work. What FB has done is made it easier for the lazy to connect with and stay within their own interest groups. FB has made it easy for people to ignore negative information with tons of cat pictures (I am as guilty as anyone for that) and cheerful little meaningless quotes. It's made it easier to post misinformation and spre…

"Hyperlinks still work." I observe that this is increasingly no longer true. Links no longer show you when you have visited them. Chains of 301s are common. Tracking links are now the norm. The link text almost never is where you are actually going. Pages automatically redirect you based on a ton of probed information (mobile, desktop, tablet, logged in to G+, logged into facebook, etc), and even normal browser short…

Not to mention how many of these links link into closed networks like facebook and therefore are not even public available even thought they appear and are described to be.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#64

Post by herbst »

dosgonlogs wrote: post #53
FussyZeus wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you don't have the younger markets, you don't have a future. Once their parents are on a service, the younger market isn't if they don't need to be. Facebook is delaying it by playing big in International markets and in developing countries but the social aspects can't be outrun and won't change, as I said, it's a BIG fad but it's a fad and it will die a fad's death in due time. Why do think Zuck is pushing the Fa…

I have read this comment so many times over the years, but if you look at the actual figures, this simply is not true. Young people all over the world continue to make Facebook accounts at record rates month over month, at higher rates than they do snapchat accounts or any other social media account. Younger people just make more accounts, and shape their identity in different ways across different accounts intention…

Try having fake accounts. It is really not as facebook would this make easy.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#65

Post by blub »

developer2 wrote: post #59
jrnichols wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That sheds light on a much scarier issue: Google.com has effectively BECOME the internet. I've noticed this in schools where Google products are used. The kids are now equating Google with the entire internet. They don't know anything about email - they just know Gmail. That's what is kind of scary to me. It's frustrating at home as well because while I am doing my best to educate the kids about technology, they ar…

I'd advocate a bit towards the opposite: why does it matter? The future of technology is probably going to wind up being entirely based on walled ecosystems anyway. If you own a MacBook, it's already very enticing to tie that in with an iPhone, etc. It's all about tight integration. I'd also say there is not a single existing system that exists yet which provides the kind of tight integration I'm dreaming of. I'm tal…

Naive. Word will not spread that one should not use Google/Facebook, they've turned milking their users for information into an art form.

And the plentiful misguided sympathizers making up excuses for them are muddying up the waters even more. I see you're at the point where "walled gardens are good". That freedom does have a certain flavor of slavery, doesn't it?

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#66

Post by blub »

paulddraper wrote: post #35
5ilv3r wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Hyperlinks still work." I observe that this is increasingly no longer true. Links no longer show you when you have visited them. Chains of 301s are common. Tracking links are now the norm. The link text almost never is where you are actually going. Pages automatically redirect you based on a ton of probed information (mobile, desktop, tablet, logged in to G+, logged into facebook, etc), and even normal browser short…

I must use 100+ links a day with 99% success rate.

If you use the web on the terms of content publishers, being flooded with ads, tracked everywhere, getting hit by malware every now and then, you will have a good success rate at "opening links".

Congratulations for that phyrric victory.

If one however desires even a little bit of control of their browsing experience, the hyperlink and the modern web are broken. It seems to be impossible to click a link and display a simple text with some images nowadays on the web, even if that's the great majority of the available content. Something will break - one will be treated either with an empty white page, missing menus, missing styles, etc.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#67

Post by blub »

vinceguidry wrote: post #50
devishard wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You are still as free as before to make your own websites and share your content the way it was done before Facebook. And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. > But it's the people that are at fault here, they are the ones that let themselves get hoodwinked. Did you really claim that scam victims are to blame when they get scammed, and not th…

> And nobody will read them if you don't integrate with Facebook and other social media--where you will be censored. That's not an issue with Facebook, it's the natural consequence of being popular. Things are popular because the public likes them. You can't say that something being powerful because the public made them powerful is undemocratic. Either you're giving the public what they want or you're not. Dethroning…

There is no such thing as a public institution under private management. Facebook is a corporate entity with control over a large part of the internet and no accountability towards their user base.

When a private institution has so much power there need to be rules put in place that make sure they won't abuse that power to the detriment of everyone else. Democracy is about people, not the rights of corporations.

Your claims about the power of the people are amusingly misguided as reading a little bit about history will tell you. Pointers: propaganda, public opinion manipulation.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#68

Post by blub »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #31
HappyTypist wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Facebook is prioritising native content over external hyperlinks. That's a subtle but significant lock in.

So? They aren't preventing you from going outside the service to find your own information. FB's policies dictate how you interact with FB, but you don't have to interact with FB at all, if you choose not to.

Once a platform becomes big enough, it doesn't matter what YOU can do if everyone else is on that platform. Whether YOU want to or not, your friends and family are probably on Facebook and you probably have to use gmail and WhatsApp to talk to them.

You argument is flat out wrong.

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#69

Post by blub »

zwieback wrote: post #15

I've read the "blogs were great, FB is bad" article a few times in recent years and put it off as whining. I was a whiner myself when Usenet gave way to blogs but got over it. However, it might be different in emerging markets where phones are the primary platform and FB may be dominating, not really sure if that's true but certainly different from the US.

I've heard a story from an acquaintance from Germany: their kids were ostracised in school by the others until they had a smartphone and started using WhatsApp.

Whenever WhatsApp is shut down in Brazil, a local chimes that it's used everywhere, even by emergency medical service personnel.

That should cause one some uneasy feelings...

Re: “Facebook has destroyed the open web”

#70

Post by smadge »

drivingmenuts wrote: post #12

Facebook hasn't destroyed the web - it's still there and functioning fine. Hyperlinks still work. What FB has done is made it easier for the lazy to connect with and stay within their own interest groups. FB has made it easy for people to ignore negative information with tons of cat pictures (I am as guilty as anyone for that) and cheerful little meaningless quotes. It's made it easier to post misinformation and spre…

"hyperlinks still work"

Not on Facebook, which is the whole point. You can paste URLs into Facebook, but they aren't hypertext.

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