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How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

techinasia.com

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Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#61

Post by maroonblazer »

ryporter wrote: post #52
maroonblazer wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a distinction without a difference. They invested effort - time and money - into marketing activities. Whether or not those efforts were outsourced is immaterial.

There is a difference. You are lumping many aspects of starting a business into the marketing category. Identifying a market? That's one of the first things you do when you start a company. It's finding a group of people to market a product to. If that's marketing, then almost all aspects of a business are marketing.

Perhaps you're too young to remember but there was a time when businesses didn't do things like identify a market. They started with a product and focused primarily on how to manufacture and distribute it for the least amount of money. I.e. their attention was directed inwardly and the focus was primarily about economics.

Those dimensions of starting a business that we now take for granted - from identifying a market to branding and visual design of the packaging and other consumer-facing materials - come to us by way of the discipline of marketing management.

Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#62

Post by maroonblazer »

masukomi wrote: post #60
maroonblazer wrote: post #9

The title of the article belies its content. Several examples of marketing are cited: - They identified a market: people who want to learn a language as quickly, easily and inexpensively as possible. - They analyzed and understood the needs and desires of the target market. Presumably they further segmented the market. - They created an offering that met the needs of the segment(s) they were going after. - They delib…

Marketing: noun, the action or business of promoting and selling products or services, including market research and advertising. The keywords there are "action", and "promoting". The first 4 items you list are not marketing. They are preparing for the market. The only thing there that is actually marketing is "They increased awareness and trial of their product via word-of-mouth" and that only barely counts because…

You - and the article - are conflating advertising with marketing. From the man who literally wrote the book on marketing management[0]:

"Marketing is the science and art of exploring, creating, and delivering value to satisfy the needs of a target market at a profit. Marketing identifies unfulfilled needs and desires. It defines, measures and quantifies the size of the identified market and the profit potential. It pinpoints which segments the company is capable of serving best and it designs and promotes the appropriate products and services."

I.e. advertising and promotions are just one part of marketing.

[0]http://www.kotlermarketing.com/phil_questions.shtml

Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#63

Post by GBond »

maroonblazer wrote: post #9

The title of the article belies its content. Several examples of marketing are cited: - They identified a market: people who want to learn a language as quickly, easily and inexpensively as possible. - They analyzed and understood the needs and desires of the target market. Presumably they further segmented the market. - They created an offering that met the needs of the segment(s) they were going after. - They delib…

Leave it to HN to get all pedantic. Yes, its a bit link-baity, but I "got" what was meant by the title.

Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#64

Post by davemel37 »

Trundle wrote: post #30
davemel37 wrote: post #8

Where does this idea of glorifying not spending on marketing come from? I think it involves a fundamental misalignment of the point of building a business. I view a business as an investment vehicle and marketing is how you turn over that investment. I would be much more impressed with a business that can consistently arbitrage advertising into profits at scale. In reality anything that touches a prospect, customer o…

I think soared's answer mostly explains it but also I think the demographic/general theme of this particular site has something to do with it. Tales of growth hacking and doing much with little are more interesting and relevant to people interested in starting their own businesses or having success with their own projects than tales of big marketing spends are. I'm highly unlikely to find myself in a position any tim…

If your $500m budget is only returning $1b you are probably losing money and are wasting a ton of your budget.

For what it's worth, Duolingo raised $83.3M , so it's not like they bootstrapped to that growth.

The growth hacking you are referring to has a large cost too. You need disciplined and very creative engineers, copywriters, analysts, a culture of testing, social psychologists, marketing experts, directors, etc... I bet Duolingo's marketing costs are well into the millions a year in Human Capital.

The stories of guys going from 0 to whatever cheaply are not the same stories as a company with 83 million in funding.

Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#65

Post by vorg »

GBond wrote: post #63
maroonblazer wrote: post #9

The title of the article belies its content. Several examples of marketing are cited: - They identified a market: people who want to learn a language as quickly, easily and inexpensively as possible. - They analyzed and understood the needs and desires of the target market. Presumably they further segmented the market. - They created an offering that met the needs of the segment(s) they were going after. - They delib…

Leave it to HN to get all pedantic. Yes, its a bit link-baity, but I "got" what was meant by the title.

Besides confusing advertising and marketing, this marketing article contains a few other inaccuracies. E.g. it says: "In China alone, points out Luis, there are 400 million people learning English who require some form of certification to prove their proficiency for a job or studies abroad."

Perhaps it should read "... people learning English who may require some form of certification ..." because not all of those 400 million Chinese are looking to work or study abroad.

Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#66

Post by Trundle »

davemel37 wrote: post #64
Trundle wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think soared's answer mostly explains it but also I think the demographic/general theme of this particular site has something to do with it. Tales of growth hacking and doing much with little are more interesting and relevant to people interested in starting their own businesses or having success with their own projects than tales of big marketing spends are. I'm highly unlikely to find myself in a position any tim…

If your $500m budget is only returning $1b you are probably losing money and are wasting a ton of your budget. For what it's worth, Duolingo raised $83.3M , so it's not like they bootstrapped to that growth. The growth hacking you are referring to has a large cost too. You need disciplined and very creative engineers, copywriters, analysts, a culture of testing, social psychologists, marketing experts, directors, etc…

I mean, I didn't actually get anything out of this particular article at all or upvote it, but there was at least potential of hearing how they got to the point where they could get that funding and afford those experts, so I clicked it. It had a chance. Can't say the same if I saw "How Coca Cola increased ROI on their $2 billion advertising spend by 3%!"

Re: How Duolingo got 110M users without spending on marketing

#67

Post by soared »

maroonblazer wrote: post #61
ryporter wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a difference. You are lumping many aspects of starting a business into the marketing category. Identifying a market? That's one of the first things you do when you start a company. It's finding a group of people to market a product to. If that's marketing, then almost all aspects of a business are marketing.

Perhaps you're too young to remember but there was a time when businesses didn't do things like identify a market. They started with a product and focused primarily on how to manufacture and distribute it for the least amount of money. I.e. their attention was directed inwardly and the focus was primarily about economics. Those dimensions of starting a business that we now take for granted - from identifying a market…

Do you have any interesting articles or reading about your first paragraph? I'm too young to have even realized that was a regular thing.
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