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Repair is a Radical Act

patagonia.com

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Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#61

Post by violentvinyl »

mipapage wrote: post #41
mattnewport wrote: post #24

I appreciate companies making repairable products, providing repair manuals and avoiding proprietary screws etc. but I think it's overly simplistic to say repair is the default right choice. It makes sense to strive for efficiency. In some cases repair is the most efficient choice but in others it is not. There are always tradeoffs and sometimes durability and repairability are over-engineering for a particular use c…

Sadly, I doubt that manufacturers are consciously thinking about durability and (more-so) repairability when planning. "In some cases repair is the most efficient choice but in others it is not." I doubt that choice - one way or another -is being made very often. If a tradeoff has been made, then it would be great to have that knowledge as a consumer and thus be able to make an informed decision.

The inclusion of DeWalt got me thinking, because I own several DeWalt power tools. Arguably, these are contractor grade tools made to stand up to some abuse. I buy them because it's a well regarded brand name (for the reason above), but typically only after I've validated my need for a specific tool by breaking a cheap one from repeated use. Truth be told, I've never thought about having to repair it (which I could probably do, because I do know there are parts available for them) or sending it off for repair, because even after owning some of them for 10+ years and subjecting them to countless loanings and abuse, none of them have failed on me.

I agree that there is a trade off, but I think it is this: I bought from a respected brand, so that in the event of failure, I can bring it back to the manufacturer (who will probably still be in business), and they can/will fix it (often under an extended warranty, and it's also not unheard of to find tool manufacturers specifically that will repair or replace tools under a lifetime warranty) rather than say something to the effect of "well, we can't fix that, you'll need to buy a new one". If the cost to me as a consumer for this privelege is that they feel the need to take measures that might prevent someone without the right tools from taking it apart so that they can ensure some revenue to keep their parts/repair services running, than I'm okay with that (as long as they aren't trying to sue people for making repairs).

This whole thing conjures up the Apple mindset of providing a consistent user experience, and locking down a device to ensure that consistency. Unfortunately, a combination of factors (outdated legal frameworks, pricing models, etc.) seem to conspire against people who want both a quality product manufactured to a high standard and the ability to tinker and repair (ie. HN users).

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#62

Post by Endurance1 »

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Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#63

Post by Theodores »

famousactress wrote: post #22
mc32 wrote: post #8

Maybe as the CEO of a clothing company I hope she can effect change in the seasonal nature of fashion, so that people aren't pushed to buy new clothes every year --and that clothes be made to last more then one season (via velocity of fashion, or via making compromised clothing fashionable (acid wash, tears, rips, etc...) People who darn and patch already do what she proposes. It may take off with others, but she can…

That's literally happening at Patagonia and has been for more than twenty years. It's worth reading Yvonne's book [1]. In it, he talks about Patagonia clothes becoming fashionable in the 80's which led to a spike in demand, then a trough when fashion shifted and layoffs which deeply hurt him and the company. The reaction was to focus severely on attracting customers that were using the products for utility and to dis…

Well, that is my Dad's Christmas read decided on, thanks for the tip!

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#64

Post by facepalm »

Anybody know what is the status for repairs in Europe/Germany? My jacket is falling apart and I really want to either have it repaired or if I get a new one, I want a company that offers repairs.

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#66

Post by TeMPOraL »

Plasmoid wrote: post #6
ghaff wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is recycling for various electronics components and, in some locales, certain components are legally supposed to be recycled (CRTs, lithium batteries). I don't know the details of what happens in the recycling process however.

Sadly, the process is often to ship to Africa or China and just dump it. There might be some government paperwork that says this particular open-air debris garden is just the storage lot for a proper recycling operation, but often the closest thing to recycling is locals picking through the mounds of trash looking for anything of value.

In China they'll recycle it and sell it back to you. And it's fine, most re-used components aren't worse than the new ones.

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#67

Post by jessaustin »

mc32 wrote: post #10
pcl wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I've got a pair of Patagonia ski pants that are about 12 years old, and they were a replacement for another pair that was maybe 15 years old by the time the ankles, knees and inseam were thoroughly trashed beyond further repair.

Some people are good like that, but many others just want to have whatever is in fashion that year or more modern that year (new and maybe marginally better materials, but perhaps not necessary for the purchaser's expected use). She has a good idea, I hope it catches on further and hope it permeates into the GAPs, UNIQLOs, ZARAs, Celios, Diesels, A&F, etc... but I'm not holding my breath.

Haha this week I've been wearing my Uniqlo vest that I bought in 2000. I think I still have a couple of shirts from that era around as well...

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#68

Post by TeMPOraL »

roflchoppa wrote: post #3
ghaff wrote: post #2

This tends not to work with electronics which tend to be at least somewhat obsolete by the time you'd repair them--and, frankly, is less economical than it used to be for many items. That said, I do tend to fix or have fixed clothing with a relatively minor issue that is otherwise still good.

im not expert in this, but is hardware able to be broken back down into the elements that they came from to be reused?

It can, and it is, but there's only few places on Earth where it makes sense on a larger scale. They do it in China, and I suspect that a lot of old components make their way into new phones, but haven't seen any numbers yet.

Electronic components generally don't wear much, there's nothing that makes them unsuitable for use in new devices except that ordering new parts is probably cheaper thanks to economies of scale.

Come to think of it, maybe it could be changed? Recycling electronic components is mostly about melting the elements off the PCB and then sorting them to correct bins; the latter part is what usually involves humans. With proper design and sufficient automation, maybe there could be a fully-automated recycler that takes random electronics junk as input, and gives out spools of components ready to be used by a pick&place machine?

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#69

Post by darkr »

pjc50 wrote: post #55
quanticle wrote: post #43

While some companies, like Ricoh, DeWalt, Caterpillar and Lenovo have made repair and remanufacturing a staple of their business model, This is why I continue to buy Lenovo, even though it can be argued that overall quality and durability of a Thinkpad isn't what it used to be when IBM still owned the brand. When I buy a Thinkpad (like the T440s I bought last year), I am reasonably assured that if something breaks, I…

You're unconcerned about Superfish etc?

Yeah, that whole debacle does concern me, but I don't think I've ever used the stock OS that came with a machine. Even if Lenovo did have a Debian option, I would still wipe it and replace with my own trusted setup.

Re: Repair is a Radical Act

#70

Post by mipapage »

Camillo wrote: post #57
mipapage wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe read the book rather than let this person 'ruin it for you'.

I was talking about the "Repair is a Radical Act" post, and my position, like I said, is that it is brand marketing. Therefore, I am not going to make any active effort: I expect the message to be regurgitated directly into my gullet.

Sure, I don't think they have ever hid the fact that they play the game, what they are trying to do is play it in a responsible manner. Yvon Chouinard's book is worth a read, it's a fine line to tread and, in my opinion, lazy to take the cynical way out. (Not that I think you are!)
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