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Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

latimes.com

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#591

Post by ryandamm »

kyboren wrote: post #534
ryandamm wrote: post #342

The root cause of the collapse in math education in California is one bad researcher's work, combined with politics. Briefly, a Stanford-affiliated "researcher" named Jo Boaler produced two deeply underpowered studies claiming to show that putting all students in the same grade-level math course led to better outcomes for everyone — even the kids that would've normally been tracked into advanced math. But she only te…

I agree with everything you wrote about maladministration of California's math curricula, but: > since Prop 13 in the 1970s, California has been 49th or 50th in per-pupil funding for public education (excluding college, I think). This is totally incorrect. California ranked 6th in total per-pupil spending in 2023[0]. California has a formulaic mandate on K-12 funding amounts (Prop 98) and schools are funded through b…

This is interesting news to me, thank you. I'm curious if the per-pupil spending includes locally raised funds; the reality in California is that the state level funding is poor, and districts that are above some threshold don't get enough funding to operate. So public schools function as local charities and inevitably have fundraising arms to make up the shortfall. This has been true since at least the 1980s when I was in school, and is definitely still true today.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#592

Post by Nervhq »

59percentmore wrote: post #261
hedora wrote: post #53

This doesn't surprise me at all. From what I can tell, California's education system has moved from "equality" (which I would define as providing similar opportunities to all the kids) to focusing on "equity" (which I think they define as dictating the same outcome for all kids). To get an idea of how off the rails this has gotten, go read up on their statements trying to justify banning high school calculus. They ex…

Ladies and gentlemen, the modern eugenicist. Meanwhile, an anecdote: 11th Grade: Precalculus, all A's 12th Grade: AP Calculus, C average, one D quarter (in the middle of my parents' divorce, onset of body dysmorphia/dysphoria, college entrance applications, senior research practicum) College Sophomore Year: Applied Calculus, aced, highest final score in the class Post-college self-study: Failure to advance Circumstan…

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Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#593

Post by justsomehnguy »

mlsu wrote: post #62
kleiba2 wrote: post #28

I used to teach high school math. There was a big push for doing everything digitally. And admittedly, for some topics the use of technology in the classroom or at home can really be a benefit, for instance visualizations or interactive exercises. But having a digital device in class was the number one cause of distraction every time. For a lot of things, good old blackboards are just fine as are pen + paper exercise…

It’s definitely actively bad to involve a device in the vast majority of education. And, it’s a purely selfish thing by tech companies to insert themselves into education. A student should not see a computer until college or vocational school unless they are taking e.g a high school programming or electronics class.

This is how you get people who can't comperhend why they can't open Thesis.LNK from a thumbdrive.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#594

Post by ofjcihen »

throwaway27448 wrote: post #535
ofjcihen wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just FYI I was dirt poor and from a crap neighborhood and qualified for and benefited from these AP classes. Not all kids who succeed only succeed because of their background.

I am from the same situation. I speak from experience: social mobility in public school is the exception. I would have done just fine without AP classes at all, as I am sure you would have. It's the kids who need help that benefit from school. AP classes exist to pad the resumes of rich kids and justify their being propelled into academic situations that should rightfully belong to others. Prove me wrong

So because you weren’t personally benefitted as much as others no one should benefit from them.

One of my AP classes taught us how to spot logical fallacies. Seems to have benefitted me well enough.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#595

Post by MattGrommes »

SpicyLemonZest wrote: post #290
HelloNurse wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I just don't see how it's possible to construct a classroom environment that can simultaneously serve an 8th grader who's ready to start learning algebra and an 8th grader with dyscalculia who struggles with basic arithmetic. (I'd be sympathetic to "let's try our best", except that people often propose to try our best by declaring that first kid isn't actually ready.)

I've always thought we should get rid of grades altogether. There should be curricula that builds upward but if a kid masters 4th grade math, they should move on up right then, not wait for half a year to join 5th grade or have to retake 4th grade. Obviously there are operational challenges with this but it's got to be better than having bored advanced kids, the shame of being "left behind", etc. The kid with dyscalculia should be able to move at their own pace.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#596

Post by jsLavaGoat »

alephnerd wrote: post #548
jsLavaGoat wrote: post #455

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a teacher and I write education software for math as a side gig, which I must have because I'm a teacher. It's rare for any teacher to just discard the standards. And anyone who says "common core" is talking about something from 20 years ago. The new math framework--already years old--has sparked the latest wave of UC revolts and NO standardized testing is part of it. "Common core" is the exact opposite. When pe…

> And I promise your mom's school at least gives the CAASPP... Yes, but their CASSPP participation rates have fallen from 95-100% to 70s range as some people started explaining to parents how to use section 60615 to withdraw from CASSPP as it clashed with AP and SAT prep schedules - this is a public school where AP participation is in the 70-90% range. > Every school in the Bay Area is not not doing that for decades…

Again, you keep using that word. The standards haven't changed. It's not the standard, this isn't about California's math standards. You're talking about standards, but this is about the framework.

Wealth also correlates with higher test scores. Why? because they are ignoring the framework and doing well with the standards.

This isn't about common core and nothing I have said or you have said changes that.

Even San Francisco rejected the basic premise of that framework's approach to algebra. So it's not just your mom's school either.

Anyway, I'm tired of arguing with your mom indirectly. If any other teachers want to discuss this directly and tell me how I'm wrong, please do.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#598

Post by ses1984 »

dnautics wrote: post #475
ses1984 wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only thing that changed is that California got richer, and it just so happens that wealth was evenly distributed. How convenient.

california spends about ~2.5k more per pupil in low income districts than high income districts. https://www.ppic.org/publication/financing-californias-publi...

I’m not sure what this has to do with the assertion above.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#599

Post by 59percentmore »

scarmig wrote: post #312
59percentmore wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Schools do not exist to fix every social problem By law, they monopolize up to half of a child's waking life for more than half of the year. This time commitment requires that parents put at least one meal, a substantial portion of the child's physical development, and almost all of their intellectual development (and, by extension, a substantial portion of their behavioral development) in the hands of the school. I…

That's one philosophy, sure. My philosophy is that schools that graduate students who are illiterate and innumerate have failed, no matter what rhetoric they put out about equity and social problems. (There are limited situations where it does make sense, logistically, for schools to provision social services. E.g. meals for students who don't have access to steady food sources. But those are relatively uncontroversi…

I'm not sure where you got the idea that, "A school shouldn't pass students who haven't attained grade-level mastery," and, "Schools have an obligation to support the development of children beyond their basic academic achievement," were mutually exclusive. I certainly didn't state that.

Re: Citing 'severe' math deficits, UC faculty demand a return to SAT tests for STEM

#600

Post by eudamoniac »

ceejayoz wrote: post #75
lokar wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They should not admit students who have little chance of success

Sure, but these students are likely two groups; those who are never going to be good at math , and those who were never really taught math . The latter may need an opportunity to succeed.

If you were never taught math, that sucks, but you shouldn't be admitted to a university. That's just not what needs to be happening. Go catch up on math at your own and reapply when ready.
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