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End of Japanese community

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Re: End of Japanese community

#591

Post by duped »

pseudalopex wrote: post #24
sitharus wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those would be the guidelines that all translation contributors are expected to follow, which are given to all prospective translators. It sounds like Mozilla just turned on the machine without consulting the human translators to see if the machine actually worked in a useful manner.

> It sounds like Mozilla just turned on the machine without consulting the human translators to see if the machine actually worked in a useful manner. Yes. And someone should make a real apology. But learning what the machine did wrong is part of fixing a machine.

Not all machines deserve to exist

Re: End of Japanese community

#592

Post by cardanome »

denkmoon wrote: post #250

Ladybird and other browser alternatives cannot come fast enough. Every other week we've got a thread here about some stupid move Mozilla have made, I can't remember the last time I heard positive news about Mozilla.

If Ladybird ever gets successful it will get get the same enshittification as Firefox did.

It is so vexing that people refuse to learn from our failures. If you want to keep corporate grifter away to need to build the structure to do so.

You need a strong license like GPL-v3 to scare the pricks away. You need a non profit foundation, if possible not based in the US, that actually does the development. If Google or Microsoft or any other monopolist wants to sponsor you, tell them to bugger off. Don't take the devil's money. Allow actual user to directly donate to development.

Re: End of Japanese community

#593

Post by notanastronaut »

badgersnake wrote: post #233
Stranger43 wrote: post #169

I think a fundamental lack of understanding/humility is the core of this conflict along with Mozilla's long and storied history of creating controversies/problems out of thin air. The Mozilla leadership seems to have a unfortunate tendency to emulate the behaviors of the tech companies that their core Firefox project is often seen as an alternative too. Firefox is a good browser but is prevented from capitalizing on…

> Firefox is a good browser Increasingly it isn’t. It’s crashing 2 or 3 times a day for me now, and video conferencing is barely usable.

I've completely avoided Chrome/Edge in the browser wars. I went from Netscape to IE to Firefox and stayed there. I was using it before and after its notorious changes to WebExtensions API breaking many plugins in 2017.

I don't have any crashing issues with it.

I even remember the great "speed test" wars where pages like Lifehacker were measuring how long pages took to load and declared this or that browser the winner for that year.

That being said, the direction their privacy policy is going is concerning and giving me reason to eye alternatives. But from a technical standpoint it's solid on my end.

Re: End of Japanese community

#594

Post by sometimes_all »

apexalpha wrote: post #345
nozilla wrote: post #252

> Hi Marsf, > I'm sorry for how you and the Japanese community feel about the MT workflow that we just recently introduced. Would you be interested to hop on a call with us to talk about this further? We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with. > My timezone is UTC+7, so it should be easier for us to set up time. Let me know how that sound! What a horribly condescending and patronising resp…

As someone from the Netherlands I read absolutely 0 condescending or patronising behaviour in this. It just looks like someone trying to get in contact and help out. I could've written this myself, genuinely trying to help.

If someone, especially one who pretty much worked for free for 20+ years to make YOUR PRODUCT BETTER and you just burned off all their hard work in front of them, just publicly quits with a proper explanation given as to why, and then you ask them to come to a quiet corner to "discuss things", maybe as damage control or whatever, without returning the favor and explaining your point of you as publicly as they did, or even preferring up the chance to give them some sort of agency and an opportunity for yourself to rectify things, I cannot see anything except condescending and disrespectful behavior.

This doesn't need any low-context/high-context nonsense to figure it out, given when the complainer's post was plaintive enough for someone from the Netherlands to appreciate.

Re: End of Japanese community

#595

Post by kant2002 »

etruong42 wrote: post #536
elric wrote: post #469

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe "open a communication channel" is what Mozilla should have done BEFORE they turned on this thing. This right here is the crux of the matter. But it seems to be how Mozilla operates. They frequently show a lack of awareness and consideration towards their long time supporters. I doubt this particular incident will lead to any changes, but I really wish they'd do some introspection...

This is an easy mistake in large organizations. Any project often already has so many stakeholders and politics that they are incentivized to avoid adding more stakeholders to the project if they are politically capable of doing so. Unless there is some sort of blowback, this sort of thing is likely to happen again to someone, and I understand how some people may not want to be involved anymore, and I understand how…

I was in same position as Mozilla guy when I slowly crawl through Cordova Russian translation. Then suddenly MS have initiative with Cordova Tools for VS, they redesign Cordova website (which is great) but completely drop docs website, and say - hey, we can use automatic translation if you want read in your mother tongue. Ironically I speak with MS manager and he was Russian speaking as well. So even if large corps made mistakes, their mistakes can const community contributors. But they are cheap, so who cares...

Re: End of Japanese community

#596

Post by notanastronaut »

trenchpilgrim wrote: post #270
ngruhn wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hasn't crashed for me once and I use it daily.

Been crashing for me and friends for about a week now, mostly on youtube

Google has been caught red-handed causing deliberate issues for non-Chrome browsers. Try changing the browser-agent and see if you still have issues.

Re: End of Japanese community

#597

Post by drtgh »

barbazoo wrote: post #2

> They are all happened on the product server, not on staging server. I understand that this is mass destruction of our work and explicit violation to the Mozilla mission, allowed officially. Could this have been a mistake rather than a malicious act?

By one side, we all know[1] that automated translations are always inaccurate, and this is specially deep with translations into languages like Japanese.

On the other hand, we all know that LLMs are guaranteed to introduce an error in the result, therefore always needs human supervision.

Also there are other details like the 72 hours timeframe they comment...

Therefore, to me, introducing LLMs without designing them just as an usable tool (UI/UX) to support the work -of the volunteer community- doesn't sound like a mistake, but sounds like an "I don't care at all, get out of the way".

[1] who speaks more than one language at least.

Re: End of Japanese community

#598

Post by paulsutter »

kstenerud wrote: post #369

I know that everyone has already given their opinions about what kinds of people are involved and their motivations, but this is really about two fallible humans, one listing grievances and another asking to open a communication channel. That's it. Anything else you read into this is going to be fraught with your own coloring based on a hundred words written in text (a notoriously difficult medium to establish emotio…

> We want to make sure we trully understand what you're struggling with.

This is extremely condescending, which is not what... "communication is about". He listed out plenty of crystal clear issues that are easily understood.

Translation among western languages works quite well. Automatic translation to Japanese does not work well. Anyone involved in translation should know this and understand why.

Re: End of Japanese community

#599

Post by trenchpilgrim »

notanastronaut wrote: post #596
trenchpilgrim wrote: post #270

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Been crashing for me and friends for about a week now, mostly on youtube

Google has been caught red-handed causing deliberate issues for non-Chrome browsers. Try changing the browser-agent and see if you still have issues.

Firefox and Chrome use the same agent.

Re: End of Japanese community

#600

Post by jamespo »

LunaSea wrote: post #479
OvbiousError wrote: post #436

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a very loud part of HN that strongly dislikes mozilla/firefox. It's disproportionate imo, I don't understand why they're singled out so often.

Gobbling up hundreds of millions of dollars to finance non-core missions and fat director bonuses while you sack the Servo development team might be a cause.

They generated that money.
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