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FSF announces Librephone project

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Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#591

Post by a456463 »

Worldblender wrote: post #175

Finally! It took the FSF long enough to catch up with the overwhelming usage of mobile devices, but it's better late than never. I like that this project is trying to tackle something much more challenging that can't be done with just software: reverse engineering device firmware and binary blobs, the pieces of software that actually make hardware components interface with an OS. Understanding how this stuff function…

Been running the latest lineageos without google crapware on oneplus 6. It is amazing

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#592

Post by taink »

john01dav wrote: post #546
Ajedi32 wrote: post #483

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the one big flaw I've seen in Stallman's philosophy on software. He's been thoroughly proven right I think about the dangers of closed-source (unmodifiable) software to user freedom. But I think his insistence that Free Software also needs to be freely redistributable with no payment to the author in order to be Free has greatly limited the resources available to build such software. The FSF will argue "you c…

We should have terms and rigorous standards for software that is proprietary but not otherwise restrictive of user freedom. Most (weighing by how commonly it's used) software is either traditional, abusive, proprietary software like Windows or Google'd Android or is fully free like Linux. But, there is a large library of software that isn't under a free license, but doesn't attempt to abuse the user into being more p…

The initial sale never has and never will be the issue with non free software; in fact, they can sometimes be acquired free of charge. I get your sentiment and I agree with you that some software can indeed be proprietary without being predatory or abusive.

I think there is an issue with your definition of "user freedom". What do you mean by it?

Stallman, when defining free software, does not bother with standards or terms: he relies on his own definition of what "user freedom" means and from there states that free software is software that is not restrictive of this freedom.

Free software simply does not restrict what the user can do with a program. It is not a matter of interest. People that choose a free license when they publish something (and respect the license's terms, obviously) are voluntarily letting go of their ability to restrict the user's usage of the program.

The issue I would have with "non-predatory" or "non-abusive" non-free software is that it does not allow me to fix problems I might have with the program. But this is only a problem I have. In other contexts, maybe a user needs to send (modified or otherwise) copies to other people of the software without being able to make sure the author agrees that this transaction is ok.

Fundamentally, non-free software restricts the user's freedom, even if it fully respects what the user would want to do. Similarly, a typewriter that can only output English text would restrict your freedom to type anything beyond English text (which is not something you would care about if you only wanted to write English).

That's the idea anyway. What do you think?

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#593

Post by naasking »

TZubiri wrote: post #551
kristianpaul wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Librephone is the FSF's project to free up those blobs. This project's goal is not another Android distribution, but a long-term project to better understand and reverse-engineer the nonfree blobs used by virtually all SoCs made today. " Looks they're going to build something literally from the ground

I feel that free software sometimes obsesses over the 1% when the 99% of their objective is achieved. I make a parallel with politics and transparency, a software lead once told me that a completely transparent government was tried in the french revolution and it kind of didn't work. For example, we all would agree that there's some functions of government related to war and security that should not be transparent. I…

> I feel that free software sometimes obsesses over the 1% when the 99% of their objective is achieved.

Yes, that's what it means to have ideals.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#594

Post by ForHackernews »

strcat wrote: post #579
ForHackernews wrote: post #362

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I prefer /e/OS to LineageOS because it includes sensible defaults (e.g. Maps app + MicroG with location providers and signature spoofing enabled) that are a pain to set up for yourself after flashing vanilla LineageOS. /e/OS already partners with Fairphone, if you like that hardware: https://murena.com/shop/smartphones/brand-new/murena-fairpho... I agree that PostmarketOS needs a lot more love, but it's very far from…

/e/ has extraordinarily poor privacy and security. Extremely delayed privacy and security patches including years of delays for kernel, driver and firmware updates or complete AOSP patches is not compatible with privacy. /e/ rolls back privacy and security far more than LineageOS and /e/ includes their own invasive services. Murena services even send data to OpenAI without user consent. https://discuss.grapheneos.org…

You post something similar almost every time /e/OS is mentioned.

I recognize that GrapheneOS has a different threat model in mind (journalists, activists, etc.), but /e/OS is a big improvement over OEM Android for most regular people. I tend to agree with your linked article that for users happy to live in Apple's locked-down glass box, iOS is a more secure, more usable system than either Graphene or /e/OS.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#595

Post by positron26 »

fsflover wrote: post #563
Ajedi32 wrote: post #561

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The main reason Netflix is more convenient than piracy is that piracy is illegal. If The Pirate Bay was allowed to offer a $2/month unlimited movie streaming service with no legal repercussions, Netflix would be out of business.

Actually, piracy became rare exactly when Netflix became easy to use and not when the former became illegal (which it always was).

Hey don't discount the work that various actors did to make piracy less convenient as well. VPNs and upload caps, not to mention putting all the infrastructure and ops in place to force people to use them made piracy harder than it technically needs to be.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#596

Post by galangalalgol »

M95D wrote: post #541
galangalalgol wrote: post #484

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There aren't even any arm or x86 desktops that are completely blob free. There is some ridiculously expensive amd power hungry power9 thing that nothing will run on, and some of sifive's newer boards might qualify. Every arm at least has some soc blobs. And every x86 has something like ime. Going straight for a blob free phone seems like getting ahead of ourselves. How about we shoot for a completely free rpi usable…

Rockchip AFAIK doesn't have any. It boots with mainline u-boot, but it doesn't include any wifi or other radios.

It os definitely more open than most, thanks! I'm pretty sure it still has the masked boot rom before getting to the open bits. While the tpl and ddr are still blobs and might harbor naughtiness, people have at least figured out how to edit the blobs https://github.com/hbiyik/rkddr

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#597

Post by Dylan16807 »

jacquesm wrote: post #525
charcircuit wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The number of times that Linux distros, free software, has made my computer unusable, requiring me to manually fix it, is uncountable. Bugs from OS updates is still entirely possible even without updating firmware blobs.

To a driver whose car just died on I 405 in heavy traffic that is a distinction without a difference.

> that is a distinction without a difference

Yes, agreed, the entire idea of OTA updates to cars has a lot of bad consequences. No matter the license.

So when we analyze the entire position of the FSF, all three cases listed above, I don't think you actually agree with them. FSF isn't against updating firmware on the fly, they just want certain things when it happens. And those things won't improve safety.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#598

Post by ryukoposting »

criddell wrote: post #123
le-mark wrote: post #3

> Practically, Librephone aims to close the last gaps between existing distributions of the Android operating system and software freedom. The FSF has hired experienced developer Rob Savoye (DejaGNU, Gnash, OpenStreetMap, and more) to lead the technical project. He is currently investigating the state of device firmware and binary blobs in other mobile phone freedom projects, prioritizing the free software work done…

The time is right, but I still don’t think this project can accomplish much because people are generally happy with their phones. That said, the phone market is huge. They could sell enough devices to fund future development which might be good enough even if it doesn’t slow down Apple or Google. At least then there will be a device for those of us who are not happy with the state of things.

> people are generally happy with their phones

I'm not. Samsung treats my phone like dirt. I'd love to have some actual ownership of a device I spent $900 on last year.

I don't think my wife is happy with her iPhone either. She bought one of those little NFC fridge magnet things that locks your phone out of social media apps. She and I are dissatisfied in different ways, but there's a theme here.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#599

Post by zaphar »

antisol wrote: post #582
TZubiri wrote: post #551

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel that free software sometimes obsesses over the 1% when the 99% of their objective is achieved. I make a parallel with politics and transparency, a software lead once told me that a completely transparent government was tried in the french revolution and it kind of didn't work. For example, we all would agree that there's some functions of government related to war and security that should not be transparent. I…

> we all would agree that there's some functions of government related to war and security that should not be transparent Yeah I don't know that this premise is true. For a lot of examples you might give WRT war or security, I feel like some will take the approach that "if you can't do it transparently then you probably shouldn't be doing it at all". > I feel that if the FSF recognizes that there's some areas that ar…

    Yeah I don't know that this premise is true. For a lot of examples you might 
    give WRT war or security, I feel like some will take the approach that "if 
    you can't do it transparently then you probably shouldn't be doing it at 
    all".
If your enemy knows your entire plan of attack in a battle you will lose. This isn't theoretical it's just a fact. It's why military organizations invest so much in intelligence. Knowing what the other guy is planning gives you a massive advantage.

You could perhaps say "Well then you shouldn't get in a war". But that isn't really under your control. If someone else decides they are in a war with you. You are in a war. It doesn't really matter whether you wanted to be in one or not.

Re: FSF announces Librephone project

#600

Post by dotancohen »

bandie91 wrote: post #536
dotancohen wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my country we have a large religious community that eschews smartphones. Due to this no company or government agency requires a smartphone for service.

would you mind reveal which community and country is this? maybe i can ask them to lobby in my area too...

It's the religious Jews in Israel.
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