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Pope Francis has died

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#591

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He was, but John Paul II was traditionally conservative. I think Francis resonated with more people–Christian or not–because he emphasized compassion, humility, and social justice. He spoke more openly about issues like poverty, climate change, and inclusion–his encyclical LAUDATO SI’ is a great read–, and he often used language and gestures that the "common man" could relate to. Perhaps the way he dressed so simply–…

I think it's interesting that PJII was very popular with Catholics and possibly less so with non-Christian. Despite or because being more conservative? He was also a very good man and humble.

JP was a great communicator. He understood what it meant for the church to talk to the people—first by traveling to many countries and in opposition to communist atheism, later with the organization of the Journee Mondiale de la Jeunesse. During the late 90s there was a pretty big Catholic spiritual movement towards boys and girls in their late teens or early 20s and it's crazy how big the JMJ was.

His trick was hiding the conservative positions behind the mask of the beloved communicator.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pretty disappointing from someone who spent his career modelling language and the cognition behind it.

It is probably exactly because he spent a career considering the cognition behind language that he is not as impressed by LLMs as many others are. I'll readily admit to being expert in neither language and linguistics nor AI, but I am skeptical that anything going on inside an LLM is properly described as "cognition."

If can answer questions about a subject because you want to university and studied it, does that make you a plagiarist?

To me this is the usual "it doesn't _really_ understand" claim which people say because they feel like their human exceptionality is threatened.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#593
post #356

In 2021, during a visit to the Greek island of Mytilene, Pope Francis delivered one of the finest speeches I've ever read: > This great basin of water, the cradle of so many civilizations, now looks like a mirror of death. Let us not let our sea (mare nostrum) be transformed into a desolate sea of death (mare mortuum). Let us not allow this place of encounter to become a theatre of conflict. Let us not permit this “s…

I had no idea anyone still used the term “mare nostrum”. I believe it began to be used during the Roman Empire when the Romans had conquered all lands surrounding the Mediterranean. Back then, the term meant the sea belonged to them and no one else. That meaning no longer applies in the modern day, so using it today would mean “we all share this” rather than the original meaning. His use of the term was a clever way…

For "older generations" in Italy it is absolutely fine as a reference.

Not sure about Gen Z and younger people though.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#594

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing from the Bible indicates that hell is empty, so that is indeed an interesting response from the Pope.

The Bible has very little to say about hell in general.

Catholicism isn't Protestantism. The idea that the Bible is the only source of truth is a Protestant idea and thus is very visible in the US. Catholicism, however, teaches that tradition and church teachings are sources of truth on par with the Bible. As such, for many teachings, especially those like Hell where the Bible is unclear, what it says isn't very relevant to Catholic doctine.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As in just the one time? Or as a once per year replacement?

Once per year. He commanded his disciples to "do this in remembrance of me." There is no mention of how often, but given Jesus allergy to ritual as opposed to genuine acts of worship, it seems reasonable that this would not be a commonplace thing. Again... interpretation.

We can get context for how the early Christians understood it by looking to additional sources from that period, e.g. the Didache and the early Church Fathers.

https://www.ewtn.com/catholicism/library/holy-eucharist-in-t...

Re: Pope Francis has died

#596

https://www.vaticannews.va/en/pope/news/2025-04/pope-francis... > According to Archbishop Diego Ravelli, Master of Apostolic Ceremonies, the late Pope Francis had requested that the funeral rites be simplified and focused on expressing the faith of the Church in the Risen Body of Christ. Always struck me as a simple man and that likely contributed to people liking him more when compared to his predecessors. RIP.

His persona as being simple focus is just PR, no different than puff pieces about bill gates driving a Prius, or Warren buffet living in the first house that be bought.

This is really not true for those who knew him throughout his life.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#598

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> .. even as an atheist lots of christians didn't like him, considering he was too progressive

Only American Protesting Catholics had issues with him. The same ones that post Deus Vult memes on Facebook.

One data point, but I live in a progressive country in western Europe, and I have close family members who are in the "right wing / trumpist / christians" movement (which does exist in Europe too), and obviously they really disliked this pope.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#599
post #519

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are correct that most people do not use the term any more. But the Pope isn't like most people. It's an informal requirement that the Pope be able to speak Latin and Italian is commonly used in the Vatican (being surrounded by Italy probably has something to do with that). Even though Francis was not as fluent as his predecessors in Latin and Italian, he certainly understood it better than most and his speechwrit…

As the child of Italian immigrants to Argentina, Francis was quite fluent in Italian. He’s old enough that his formation would have included significant Latin instruction as well. I would guess that Benedict’s Latin skills were superior, but Francis was reasonably conversant in the language from what I understand. The thing that I found interesting was during trump’s visit to the Vatican, he asked trump’s Slovenian w…

> As the child of Italian immigrants to Argentina, Francis was quite fluent in Italian.

Actually he was more fluent in the Piedmontese dialect. His Italian was somewhat wobbly at the time of his election.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy. Cf. Job. 38: 1. Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 "Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall a…

As an agnostic who spends a lot of time reading scriptures of several religions, trying to grasp the themes and motivations of others I share a world with -- those passages are particularly inscrutable.

You might enjoy unsongbook.com, a main theme of which is contemplating the meaning of that passage (and, related to that, making whale puns).
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