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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#591

Post by Mawr »

Saline9515 wrote: post #228
com wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But those cars, as has been explained to you, don’t do nearly as many trips per year. Mobility in families is actually higher, since each individual has sturdy legs, and highly likely, a bike after they’re about 5 years old. Kids often travel to school, after school events etc on foot, bike or public transport, not dependent as in many car-centric places on parents and their cars. Grandma is as likely to bike over fo…

Yes, but they still own them. In Paris, and many commenters here argue that you shouldn't own one.

You're comparing a city with a country. Yes, you generally speaking shouldn't need a car if you live in a city.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#592

Post by mytailorisrich »

timeon wrote: post #588
flomo wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "mobility opportunities". I recognize the issues, and the lack of easy answers, so I think I'm only "touchy" about is simplistic solutions. European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. But I know little about the details, so don't really have any commentary, other than not all of Europe some glorious bike/transit boogie utopia. (And some ppl get "touchy" about that.)

> European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. Do you have source for this? I believe this could be true now but I find this kind of arguing dismissive and missing the point. I'm not from environment you have described. Still remmeber people in my East European corner were able to easily commute to work by bus/train without car. However since they got richer they adopted American commuter patterns more…

The thing is that public transport outside of dense urban areas is very expensive compared to the number of journeys.

So as soon as you start considering cost and return on investment services tend to be reduced or shut down.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#593

Post by const_cast »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #413
const_cast wrote: post #236

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a regressive tax, and it primarily assists commuters and small businesses, and I've already explained how.

> It's not a regressive tax It's a compulsory fee charged by the government not based on income/consumption. That's the most regressive tax. Even sales tax is less regressive than that. > it primarily assists commuters and small businesses Relative to any alternative that reduces congestion without charging fees, it doesn't. Even relative to doing nothing, the people being deterred are the ones paying the cost, and t…

> Relative to any alternative that reduces congestion without charging fees, it doesn't.

These? Don't exist. We're not going to sit here and argue against hypothetical, made-up solutions.

> and the people being deterred are the most price sensitive ones, i.e. the poor.

Sigh. No, the most price sensitive people are riding the subway, because the subway is SIGNIFICANTLY cheaper and faster than owning and operating a car. This is targeting the people right above those people, who, because they have a bit more money, think they need to drive. They don't. They should be riding the subway. And now, they are. They might complain - but really, they're saving money.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#594

Post by flomo »

timeon wrote: post #588
flomo wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "mobility opportunities". I recognize the issues, and the lack of easy answers, so I think I'm only "touchy" about is simplistic solutions. European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. But I know little about the details, so don't really have any commentary, other than not all of Europe some glorious bike/transit boogie utopia. (And some ppl get "touchy" about that.)

> European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. Do you have source for this? I believe this could be true now but I find this kind of arguing dismissive and missing the point. I'm not from environment you have described. Still remmeber people in my East European corner were able to easily commute to work by bus/train without car. However since they got richer they adopted American commuter patterns more…

> Do you have source for this?

Great, some discord found this a couple days later and wants a google-a-thon. Since I don't know anything about "Europe", I don't care who is "european" enough to qualify for the 50% or 70% or whatever. Just that they have much better public transit, but still largely drive to work.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#595

Post by [deleted] »

Mawr wrote: post #589
flomo wrote: post #563

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, "mobility opportunities". I recognize the issues, and the lack of easy answers, so I think I'm only "touchy" about is simplistic solutions. European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. But I know little about the details, so don't really have any commentary, other than not all of Europe some glorious bike/transit boogie utopia. (And some ppl get "touchy" about that.)

> European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. Hilariously untrue. Using the bus and bike to go to work is normal here. Buses and cycle paths are full of people during rush hour. In the US using those gets you weird looks. Depends on what part of Europe and what part of US we're talking about of course, but in general this holds true.

[deleted]
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