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Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#581

Post by saltysalt »

stouset wrote: post #580
saltysalt wrote: post #568

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Asking questions is how we learn. If I disagreed, I would have wrote that instead.

What, exactly, were you hoping to learn by accusing Airparif and the EU of bias? All this time I’ve been asking questions of you, hoping to learn about your thought process: Who should be performing these measurements? Who should be funding them? Who is someone without bias in the outcome of this process? What is an example of any result on any topic you accept as having been produced by an unbiased party with unbias…

You should try addressing my original question, rather than deflecting with yours. Have you provided any evidence of their independence?

But you clearly can't. I give up.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#582

Post by stouset »

saltysalt wrote: post #581
stouset wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What, exactly, were you hoping to learn by accusing Airparif and the EU of bias? All this time I’ve been asking questions of you, hoping to learn about your thought process: Who should be performing these measurements? Who should be funding them? Who is someone without bias in the outcome of this process? What is an example of any result on any topic you accept as having been produced by an unbiased party with unbias…

You should try addressing my original question, rather than deflecting with yours. Have you provided any evidence of their independence? But you clearly can't. I give up.

This is ridiculous. The standard isn’t “are they unbiased” because it is utterly unachievable. You know this and you cling to it anyway. What matters is whether their bias materially influenced their conclusions.

They have provided analysis and data backing that analysis. It is now up to you as a skeptic to find fault in that. “They are biased” is lazy, intellectually dishonest, and utterly unconvincing. It is a canned response that can be given to literally every conclusion ever reached and so can (and has been) dismissed out of hand.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#583

Post by thehappypm »

AnthonyMouse wrote: post #409
rangestransform wrote: post #248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is as much of a criticism of bmw as a compliment to Tesla, the new M5 weighs more than a similarly fast lucid air

A lot of this is modern safety features. Crumple zones and stronger roofs add weight, more weight implies bigger engines, bigger engines require stronger frames, soon the average car is two tons. Volvo S60, Mercedes C class and Audi S4 are also a similar size and weight. The makes from the US and Japan are a little lighter but not dramatically lighter and their safety ratings are also a little worse.

It’s also a testament to the improved efficiency of engines. Once your engine can deliver a few extra MPG, it’s easier for companies to pack more weight on.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#584

Post by thehappypm »

FredPret wrote: post #304
thehappypm wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“They weigh more” is something I kinda have a problem with. People act like EVs are these behemoths, but your typical EV is hardly an outlier. The Tesla Model 3, for example, weighs as much as a Honda CRV. Yes, that’s a different car class; but nobody looks at a CRV and complains about its weight and the environmental impact of that weight on air quality nearly the same way.

I just looked it up and wow, you're right. A Cybertruck weighs less than an F250 depending on specs

This is legitimately the first time I’ve ever seen myself being called right on the Internet

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#585

Post by kkkqkqkqkqlqlql »

paulgb wrote: post #55
jeffbee wrote: post #3

Barely even mentions the noise. Cities aren't loud but cars are. Paris 2025 vs 1995 soundscapes very different.

Manhattan recently got congestion pricing and it’s noticeably more enjoyable because of this, even indoors.

Didn't Trump killed it?

https://www.cnn.com/2025/02/19/business/trump-kills-congesti...

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#586

Post by Mawr »

tom89999 wrote: post #436
SequoiaHope wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If EVs don’t emit tailpipe emissions then 100% of their emissions will be those things. They’re also heavier and so have more tire wear. It seems not unintuitive to me that their emissions might push the boundaries of strict modern emissions standards. For taxing cars, you’re still leaving so much car infrastructure out there. It swallows the world. Six months ago for the first time ever I got a job where I could bik…

Cycling to work is nice. But if you are young, sitting all day in a warm office. Think of blue collar workers that are hungry, exhausted and also people getting older. Its fucking annoying to wait for the bus that does not show up, the stupid beeps whenever the doors open and the slow movement in general. Lucky i am at home in half an hour, laws now require you to commute to work in up to 1.5hrs if you cant afford a…

Wow, that is a lot of loosely connected nonsense.

> Think of blue collar workers that are hungry

The what now?

> exhausted

There aren't many jobs that physically exhaust you to the point of not being able to walk (biking is no harder than walking). Especially since leg muscles are super hard to tire out.

> people getting older

Pretty much the same as above. If anything, the elderly prefer biking to walking, it's easier on the joints.

> Its fucking annoying to wait for the bus that does not show up

Less or more annoying than waiting when your car breaks down?

> Electric bikes are no solution, the minerals and energy must be produced to transport people like me.

Right, manufacturing a 30kg bike has costs, unlike manufacturing a 1500kg car.

> No new vehicle was produced, no rare earth was needed.

That's not how the economy works. Also, buying used is better than buying new if everything else is equal (it's not in this case), but whatever vehicle you bought was produced at some point.

> Fuel is produced every day for the plastics of the EV and for many other things like pharmacy and so on.

Er, what? I guess you think your vehicle is made out of grass and runs on water or something?

> Sure you are right with vegan biking, but not all folks can do it.

Not all folks can do it, so let's stick with 99% of people using cars to get around :)

Nice try with the vegan rage-bait.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#587

Post by Mawr »

dboreham wrote: post #254
netsharc wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Obviously a trailer would not be a clever idea, but Nio already has cars with swappable batteries, for short distances you could just install a battery pack which is maybe 20% battery and 80% empty space https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNZy603as5w

Having done a long trip in an EV, in a very inhospitable location (the USA, without access to Tesla chargers), I'm not convinced there is an EV range/charge time problem. I think it's mostly in the minds of the public. Hence I'm skeptical that the changeable battery pack is a solution to any problem. My experience was that you end up stopping to charge a bit more often than you'd stop to fill up gas, but factoring in…

Yep, people use their cars for 50 miles/day for commuting and such, but when buying an EV they think of the 4 long trips they make a year.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#588

Post by timeon »

flomo wrote: post #563
epolanski wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, I was just sharing my experience and what I've heard from locals. Anyway, there's an abundant literature that links inequality with transport opportunities. But those topics are so touchy for you Americans tbh, it's like arguing about weapons, it's too heated of an argument for rational discourse.

Yeah, "mobility opportunities". I recognize the issues, and the lack of easy answers, so I think I'm only "touchy" about is simplistic solutions. European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. But I know little about the details, so don't really have any commentary, other than not all of Europe some glorious bike/transit boogie utopia. (And some ppl get "touchy" about that.)

> European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's.

Do you have source for this? I believe this could be true now but I find this kind of arguing dismissive and missing the point.

I'm not from environment you have described. Still remmeber people in my East European corner were able to easily commute to work by bus/train without car. However since they got richer they adopted American commuter patterns more and this led to deterioration of public transport outside of urban areas.

No wonder people get "touchy" because you are not really arguing for those who are not "young healthy well-paid tech workers". But against them. It is not about just ditching the cars but changing whole design of living around the need of cars - which is the point that actually started this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43666410

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#589

Post by Mawr »

flomo wrote: post #563
epolanski wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You might be right, I was just sharing my experience and what I've heard from locals. Anyway, there's an abundant literature that links inequality with transport opportunities. But those topics are so touchy for you Americans tbh, it's like arguing about weapons, it's too heated of an argument for rational discourse.

Yeah, "mobility opportunities". I recognize the issues, and the lack of easy answers, so I think I'm only "touchy" about is simplistic solutions. European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's. But I know little about the details, so don't really have any commentary, other than not all of Europe some glorious bike/transit boogie utopia. (And some ppl get "touchy" about that.)

> European car commuter rates are almost identical to USA's.

Hilariously untrue. Using the bus and bike to go to work is normal here. Buses and cycle paths are full of people during rush hour. In the US using those gets you weird looks. Depends on what part of Europe and what part of US we're talking about of course, but in general this holds true.

Re: Air pollution fell substantially as Paris restricted car traffic

#590

Post by Mawr »

Saline9515 wrote: post #168
andrepd wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dutch people seem to do just fine with baby seats on their bikes, or bakfiets if you have lots of kids. Anecdotally, kids are also much happier when they can just bike to school/sports/activities with their friends instead of having their parents drive then everywhere on the back of the family SUV.

Dutch people using bikes for everything is a meme, they have as many cars per inhabitants as most of the developed nations. Anecdotically, they are a small, dense, flat country, with an oceanic weather. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_territ...

A meme you say?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pqQSwQLDIK8

As for the excuses:

> they are a small

What does a size of a country have to do with how their cities are designed?

> dense

Same as above, unless you mean city density in which case there's nothing special about Dutch cities.

> flat

Yes, and?

> an oceanic weather

Yeah, it rains all the time and yet they cycle.

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