Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT • Hacker News Board

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#591

Post by vbezhenar » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:36 AM UTC

mooktakim wrote: post #567

atlantic wrote: post #565

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Technology also moves into dead ends. Not every change is progress. You can only tell a posteriori which paths were fruitful and which were not.

Everything ends. Even things you used for a long time.

Almost every program I've used 20 years ago still available today. I think that I switched from Eclipse to Idea like 15 years ago, but Eclipse is still rocking. IT really frozen in 1990s. OS didn't change at all, they just switch fancy colors and border radius every few years. Software is the same, they just add more annoying bugs and useless features, but nothing really changes. I'm still using the same unix shell and unix tools I've used 20 years ago, I'm still greping and seding files around.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#592

Post by Bloedcoins » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:37 AM UTC

faitswulff wrote: post #448

epolanski wrote: post #407

Small ot, but it's quite interesting that the highest decisive impact generative AI is having right now is on tech workers and software developers in particular. I'm more and more convinced that we're on the edge of a major shake up in the industry with all these tools. Not getting replaced, but at this rate of improvements I can't unsee major changes. A recent junior I have in my team built his first app entirely wi…

I know a similar non-coding founder who was using LLMs to create a full fledged TypeScript based SaaS product and regularly comes to me with high level architecture questions, but also doesn't know or care to figure out what HTTP methods are, variable names are a mishmash of whatever case the LLM decided to generate that day, and there are no tests whatsoever. It's held together by sheer force of manual QA. ...but. I…

Yeah until you realize that a lot of small scale companies do the same thing with avg/bad developers for ages and ... It does work.

IF you don't have a central security team like in big companies or the need for an audit, what you don't know is what you don't care for.

Obviously until its too late but holy shit i have seen too much garbage just working for waaaay to long.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#593

Post by bamboozled » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:38 AM UTC

sanjit wrote: post #77

smy20011 wrote: post #66

A pretty good UX improvement for ChatGPT. I think they will fork VScode and make an AI editor later. Although It's confusing for me the OAI seems spend more time on end user product instead of working on AGI.

Great end user experience is a huge differentiator in my opinion… it’s why I use OpenAI over other products in the market. It’s actually a joy to use. (The responses are generally far better than other products.)

Have you tried Claude? I don’t see how it could be much better than that.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#594

Post by rsp1984 » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:41 AM UTC

machiaweliczny wrote: post #585

joshstrange wrote: post #216

The issue I continue to have with many AI coding tools is they want me to use their own editor ("native", aka VSCode fork, or in the browser like this). I have zero intention of moving away from IDEA and nothing I've seen so far is good enough to make me want to switch. I really with there was more of "bringing AI into your existing tools/workflows" instead of "here is a new tool with AI baked in".

Just use aider - it’s CLI and open source. You can open terminal in IDE and you just use /add file for context then /drop to clean context. Better than Copilot and just less worse UX than Cursor (which has benefit of knowing which page you have open). There’s also Claude engineer but not tested it yet. Forgot to mention killer feature - droping links to docs automatically fetches them in aider which helps with ground…

Look, I'm just not interested in something that gives me code on the CLI. This is no better or worse than using ChatGPT / Canvas or any other external tool.

My project has well over half a million lines of code. I'm using an IDE (in my case Qt Creator) for a reason. I'd love to get help from an LLM but CLI or external browser windows just aren't the way. The overhead of copy/paste and lack of context is a deal breaker unfortunately.

In case I'm missing something, please let me know. I'm always happy to learn.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#595

Post by herval » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:43 AM UTC

truetraveller wrote: post #367

herval wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

LLM as a service is much easier to replicate than physical data centers and there's a much lower potential user base than consumers, so I'd imagine they're swimming upstream into B2C land in order to justify the valuation

You mean downstream, not upstream. Upstream is closer to the raw materials.

the bike shed is blue

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#596

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:44 AM UTC

truetraveller wrote: post #366

pragmomm wrote: post #147

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Canvas is closer to Cursor ( https://www.cursor.com ) than Claude. I wonder how Paul Graham thinks of Sam Altman basically copying Cursor and potentially every upstream AI company out of YC, maybe as soon as they launch on demo day. Is it a retribution arc?

> potentially every upstream AI company out of YC You mean downstream.

[deleted]

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#597

Post by EZ-E » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:48 AM UTC

Bloedcoins wrote: post #589

EZ-E wrote: post #581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Am I the only one not seeing it? AI is very useful assistant, boosts productivity, and makes coding easier, but ultimately in real life scenarios beside POCs, it cannot replace a human. You quickly reach a threshold where explaining and getting the AI to do what you want is actually harder than doing it. What happens if your LLM built app has a bug and the AI does not "get" it?

You need to ask 'when'. ChatGPT shows a clear path forward. Feedback loop (consistent improvement), tooling which leverages all of llms powers, writing unit tests automatically and running code (chatgpt can run python already, when will it able to run java and other langauges?) And its arleady useful today for small things. Copilot is easier and more integrated than googling parameters or looking up documentation. UI…

I respect your opinion and you could be right, but I don't buy it so far. While integrations have improved, for the LLM models everything relies on, we don't see major advances anymore. Compare the jump from GPT3.5 to 4, vs the next iterations, it still suffers from the same limitations LLMs have (context length, overconfidence, hallucinations). Maybe I'm too impatient.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#598

Post by mark_l_watson » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:50 AM UTC

zbobet2012 wrote: post #412

Bnjoroge wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is that tacking on to an existing product, while the ideal approach, limits just how creative you can get. I believe this is one of the reasons Cursor had to fork VSCode. Simply being an extension limited the features they could build.

Emacs has none of these problems :p

True. I have been very happy using ellama.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#599

Post by mark_l_watson » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:56 AM UTC

wseqyrku wrote: post #297

joshstrange wrote: post #216

The issue I continue to have with many AI coding tools is they want me to use their own editor ("native", aka VSCode fork, or in the browser like this). I have zero intention of moving away from IDEA and nothing I've seen so far is good enough to make me want to switch. I really with there was more of "bringing AI into your existing tools/workflows" instead of "here is a new tool with AI baked in".

Only if you could commit the changes in the browser and pull locally?

Replit with AI support is web based and has GitHub integration.

Re: Canvas is a new way to write and code with ChatGPT

#600

Post by j_maffe » Fri, Oct 04, 2024, 11:56 AM UTC

throwgfgfd25 wrote: post #355

j_maffe wrote: post #348

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's more to writing than clarity, though. Not all written communication needs to abide of the efficient/clear writing style of technical documentation FFS

Sure, if you're writing a novel, maybe. But there's not much more important, stylistically, to writing an business email or document than clarity. It's absolutely the most important thing. Especially in customer communications. In the UK there is/used to be a yearly awards scheme for businesses that reject complexity in communucations for clarity: https://www.plainenglish.co.uk/services/crystal-mark.html But anyway,…

With enough repetitive suggestions asking for the same thing, it will just continuously push your writing style towards this ultra-dry writing. Plus, even in business emails it's important to show a human side in writing. It's not like Grammarly's push for clear writing actually helps in any way. Most times it just outright suggests removing relevant info from the sentence. They just push for this service as a way to incentivise subscriptions, writing quality be damned.