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Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

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Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#591

Post by ralusek »

walterbell wrote: post #578
t0mas88 wrote: post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the Netherlands the Moderna vaccine is not used for younger groups. I think the cutoff is 40. Anyone over 12 can get vaccinated and get a booster, but it will be the Pfizer vaccine.

Note that Moderna's booster volume of antigen was reduced by 50% compared to the original vaccine, while Pfizer's booster volume was unchanged from the original vaccine, https://www.modernatx.com/covid19vaccine-eua/providers/dosin...

Moderna doesn't have volume of antigen at all, the dose is of mRNA contained in liquid nano particles.

Moderna did reduce its dose for the booster, but its original dose was also 3x that of Pfizer.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#592

Post by abduhl »

atlgator wrote: post #540
x86_64Ubuntu wrote: post #433

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, but then we should see more Western countries with money problems having the same issues.

Where else in the West can you sway a country the size of Europe by funding maybe 20 influencers across the Legislative and the Executive Branches? President, VP, Speaker of the House, Senate Majority Leader, and maybe some key committee chairs and Cabinet members are really all you need. They are the playmakers. Add to that the amount of influence the US has with Western trading partners and we become a prime target…

Isn’t there an ongoing scandal involving the top ranks of EU leadership regarding the Pfizer vaccine contracts and how they were procured? It seems like you don’t have to look too far in the West outside the US to find somewhere you can spend a little cash on an “influencer” to get ahead. And luckily, it’s even less people than you’d have to bribe in America plus there’s no real way for the people to get rid of someone they never voted in, even though all of Europe can smell Ursula’s corporate stink.

And according to other posters in this thread, it seems like the Pfizer vaccine is the vaccine recommended broadly over the Moderna vaccine in Europe. Coincidence, I’m sure.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#593

Post by NLPlatypus »

OrvalWintermute wrote: post #584
gjsman-1000 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Worth noting, the Florida Surgeon General's opinion was lambasted in the mainstream media as him embracing conspiracy theories (and there is some interesting added context there as to why they believe so). Which... maybe two things are true at once. Perhaps he was - but also, perhaps his stance is not that radical. Radical compared to most Surgeon Generals in the United States; but on an international level? https://…

Florida Surgeon General CV https://www.uclahealth.org/sites/default/files/documents/Jos...

And Ben Carson is a neurosurgeon. So what?

>Ladapo claims his analysis was based on a Florida Department of Health study showing an 84 percent increase in cardiac related deaths among men aged 18 to 39 years old within 28 days of becoming vaccinated through mRNA vaccines. Yet the medical community rejected the analysis Ladapo promoted.

…

> “I just cannot fathom a group of epidemiologists who would perform an investigation, looking at the risks of vaccination, and not also have performed an analysis that looked at the risks associated with the infection itself,” Salemi said.

https://www.politico.com/amp/news/2022/10/11/medical-experts...

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#594

Post by tekknik »

tomjakubowski wrote: post #554
dahfizz wrote: post #444

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Before covid, I think the "hippy dippy" vegan, naturepath, yogi stereotype was associated most strongly with anti vaxxers. Covid was politicized, and so it became a right wing stereotype to not want the vaccine. But specifically the covid vaccine. I don't think most right wing anti-covid-vaxxers are anti vax in general.

Covid was hardly the start of the conservative antivax or alternative medicine movement. Naturalnews.com has been right-wing and antivax since 2008.

How is this a rebuttal? A single site exists and this is evidence? The antivax movement started on the left. The right very much didn’t want the COVID vax specifically. Pointing out once site that disagrees is too easy.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#595

Post by tekknik »

wwweston wrote: post #516
francisduvivier wrote: post #435

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you read this exception in the link you posted: - "with one exception. Men under 40 who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a higher risk of myocarditis followingvaccination. The Pfizer and Moderna mRNA vaccines are available in the U.S." I'd say it's worth a mention. But then it's also quite an unfair comparison if you compare the all the vaccinated against a filtered group of unvaccinated people.

I read that passage as "men who received a second dose of the Moderna vaccine had a very modest increased risk of myocarditis over those who both did not receive such a dose and remain (apparently) uninfected" -- eg, it's possible that specific intervention slightly increases absolute risk of myocarditis vs whatever group can avoid both vaccination and infection indefinitely (a group I suspect is not large). It's als…

How do you square this with chest pains after injections, either first or second dose? Say you’re also in the <40 age bracket.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#596

Post by shadowgovt »

nonethewiser wrote: post #541
shadowgovt wrote: post #477

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's an interesting question but (at least in the US) a culturally very well-settled one. There's an extremely long history of vaccination being required for participation in various aspects of society, from the military to public education. During the pandemic, it broadened to "presence in office." The three tools a society has to defend against rampant disease are hygiene, vaccination, and quarantine. Those who can…

> It's an interesting question but (at least in the US) a culturally very well-settled one. The fact that people disagree means that it is not.

Historically well-settled. This is just the first time this generation of Americans had to deal with an airborne pandemic like this. Many were surprised at the authority government has during a disease crisis (I blame a lack of civic education), but the questions had been asked and answered before they were born.

People chafed at the restrictions during the 1918 flu also, and many died who flouted them. Philadelphia saturated the city's capacity to process corpses.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#597

Post by andrewflnr »

alerighi wrote: post #165

I think that all this COVID stuff was everything opposite than using science, starting from the people, including government, taking of "trusting science". Science is not a religion, and we don't have to believe in it. Instead we need to be critic, conduct experiments, evaluate our thesis, put everything into discussion. Something we didn't, because you are a fool if you have doubts about vaccines, if you talk about…

Masses of people are, to all appearance anyway, incapable of understanding anything even as slightly nuanced as "vaccines are probably a worthwhile risk compared to COVID as we understand it today". It gets flattened to one of "vaccines are 100% safe, you must take them" or "vaccines are evil, you must not take them". I really hope that's only an appearance, that we can learn to do better, because otherwise civilization is walking dead.

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#598

Post by tsol »

daliz wrote: post #318
phtrivier wrote: post #311

Just so we now for next time: what is the proper way to express concerns about _this_ kind of things with enough nuance and moderation so as not to be automatically considered an anti-scientist tin foil hat ? What is the scientifically acceptable way to phrase "I'm not concerned about BigPharma planting 5G chips in my future children's eyeballs to turn them into communist ; but I'm very concerned about blind spots du…

You are completely right. People who expressed concerns or some doubts just a few months ago were attacked, downvoted, silenced and socially outcast. This is not science. This is the opposite of science.

People don't care about being scientifically honest. If we did, more people would be annoyed by internet atheists championing science above all else. Pushing science as the end all be all path to knowledge isn't the wholesome thing it seems. Some people take it too far and turn it into a cult

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#599

Post by [deleted] »

robomartin wrote: post #321
throwaway09223 wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. I suspect the maximum annual out of pocket.

>A two week hospital stay is orders of magnitude more than $10k, so presumably the $10k representes the out of pocket portion of the care. No, that's not the case at all. We had to negotiate with the hospital and settled for this amount. The ACA covered none of it or a very small portion. I don't remember the actual bill, my wife dealt with all of it (she is a doctor and knows how to discuss such things with hospital…

[deleted]

Re: Myocarditis after Covid vaccination: Research on possible long-term risks begins

#600

Post by walterbell »

kube-system wrote: post #588
walterbell wrote: post #576

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same principle applies, if you don't like the law, don't join that career. Very different from mandates being applied to existing jobs previously not subject to mandates. > It ain't the mandates that are new. The CDC (re)definition of vaccine is new. Also the redefinition of pandemic around 2010.

These mandates aren't only occupational. You may be required by law to be vaccinated to attend school in some places, or to be in certain care facilities. And the CDC wrote zero of these laws. The CDC's rephrasing of an FAQ article on their website may be a good starter for a right wing conspiracy theory article, but it has no bearing on this topic.

Laws apply to humans, who read the CDC website for both health information and guidance on compliance. When the US declared a Covid emergency in 2020, specific laws were invoked, some of which require policy input from HHS, including the CDC. Government agencies routinely interpret laws for application in specific circumstances. Such agency interpretations carry legal weight and real-world consequences. CDC definitions are not changed often, or casually.
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