Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Fun" fact: the Therac-25 tragedy was in part caused by this type of usage - folks who know it so well they just blast through the screens from memory. But the software in question wasn't resilient to this use-case, and apparently resulted in an inconsistent state.
Good example. --- The system distinguished between errors that halted the machine, requiring a restart, and errors which merely paused the machine (which allowed operators to continue with the same settings using a keypress). However, some errors which endangered the patient merely paused the machine, and the frequent occurrence of minor errors caused operators to become accustomed to habitually unpausing the machine…
U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
591–600 of 751 posts
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#592I've read that doctors now spend as much as 50% of their time documenting their work. Companies such as Epic, which provide the software that hospitals use to build databases of patient data, have been big winners in the new world of hospitals-depending-on-software. But did the doctors become more productive? By almost any measure, they became less productive. People in tech keep thinking more tech will solve problem…
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#593Earlier quoted context omitted.
This. So much this. In residency we are taught “document, document, document” and “this is a medical legal document” which leads to defensive medicine. Another point of why we spend more time documenting is billing. Coders/billers continue to come back and asking us to add more details about a diagnosis. More details = more charges to bill or up level. So the next progress note or office visit, I go back to add more.…
> concierge direct primary care model How does this reduce/eliminate the “better document this thoroughly in case I get sued” work? Or are the legal worries overblown/over-relied upon for over-documentation?
I think the legal worries, when it’s in concierge medicine, are over blown because at that point you are seeing a physician that is doing more quality than quantity to make ends meet. You don’t need to document to appease the biller but document enough to know what you did and so that you could share your chart notes with other providers in case the patient ever moved to another provider or (super rare) if they were admitted into the hospital and they needed some documentation for whatever reason. DPC, you are the boss and control how many patients you want to take on. In general private practice, you are at the mercy of the hospital system, payers, etc etc and are pulled in 7 different ways to make money which only benefits them and not the physician. Even then, with primary care, you are told you are a “loss leader” since we aren’t specialists and generally dumped on in the medical field.
In “private” practice, you need to see 20-30/day patients to make your salary (break even) without bonuses within a hospital/health system. That means about 400-450 patients per month. Major payers limit you to 3,000 patients under your care overall.
Studies show that 1,000:1 should be the max patient:physician ratio but many of us are around the 2-3k mark. In a true concierge medicine/direct primacy care model, since it’s mostly cash/subscription model, most of physicians average 300-500 patient panel per year which is about 4-6 patients a day. If you want to see more and make more on the side, see 400-600 patients. Are you an older doc who wants to practice but not see many patients, see 2-4 patients a day, 1-2 days a week and cover costs and still make a comfortable living.
Like I said, something is going break in the medical system and it’s only a matter of time. When it does, the healthcare disparities and inequalities will really become more apparent. Hospital systems/admins/insurance companies are now leaning on mid-levels like NPs/PAs as a bandaid to the issues of patient access but what will happen when you burn them out too?
/rant
Tldr, concierge medicine, your own boss, do whatever you want with your charting. You can chart 5 words or 5 paragraphs. Most physicians will chart enough to document well for medical and legal reasons and not have to worry about billers muddying the waters to over-document. Quality time with patients = less legal risk.
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#594I've read that doctors now spend as much as 50% of their time documenting their work. Companies such as Epic, which provide the software that hospitals use to build databases of patient data, have been big winners in the new world of hospitals-depending-on-software. But did the doctors become more productive? By almost any measure, they became less productive. People in tech keep thinking more tech will solve problem…
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#595Earlier quoted context omitted.
So what you're saying is HTML5 and server side rendering should be the go to before any client side junk.
I dunno if they are saying that, but I wholeheartedly endorse this idea. Add the "client side junk" (fancy Javascript stuff, etc.) as enhancement on top for those who want it after the required functionality is being properly and reliably served by the "core technologies". Serve the need properly first, then make it "nice".
Kind of a hard core position in my opinion considering it's ignoring the sometimes advantages / use cases for client side code (like complicated SPAs where the user is explicitly buying into the idea of running lots of code in their browser, figma comes to mind) but I still like to think about it here and there.
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#596Earlier quoted context omitted.
Or nationalize the documentation infrastructure. This is not a problem in the developed world. i give my doctor my tax ID and they can see my entire patient history, all of my medication, and relevant notes from other providers.
I work in EHR as of this year. About a week into the new job, one of the older software engineers made a comment about how what we do should really just be a function of the federal government. I was like, "but wouldn't we be out of a job of they did?" And he said, "sure, but we'll probably be dead by the time they figure it out anyway".
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/VistA
It's actually public domain and open-source. Unfortunately the VA is in an ongoing project to replace it with Cerner Millennium.
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#597Earlier quoted context omitted.
What is such a small percent and where are you getting your data?
"Long COVID" and medical journals.... Even the highest estimates only have it as a very small percentage of symptomatic patients which is already a subset of the general population.
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#598Earlier quoted context omitted.
Some healthcare provider organizations now employ medical scribes who follow physicians around and do all their EHR data entry. This is expensive, but can be cost effective because then the physicians have more time to perform billable procedures.
The least capable doctor's time is worth $300/hr. The scribe is paid what, $25/hr? This is so much like hearing of engineers that will not hire a $20/hr maid due to egalitarian reasons so they squat in filth or waste all their free hours cleaning, all while capable and willing cleaners starve. Insane.
Also there are plenty of costs to employing others besides the hourly cost. Large organizations have huge fixed costs to cover them. Consider:
- liability
- maintaining of knowledge and training to hire help
- skill to source and hire people
Re: U.S. workers have gotten less productive – no one is sure why
#599Earlier quoted context omitted.
You're right about daycare/school closings. Even now, essentially post-covid, if our two-year-old gets COVID, that's a 10-day quarantine from daycare. That's 10 days where one of the parents has to work from home and be horribly unproductive because they are watching a child at the same time. And you can get COVID repeatedly. It often from the daycare itself, but also from a sibling who is in school. Even with full,…
sounds like washington state lol. one of the reasons we moved from there. now at my kids preschool, if a kid gets sick they stay home, if they are better the next day they come back. no PCR tests, no missing 2 weeks if any member of the family was sick, its great