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Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

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Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#591
post #266
post #233

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a protest not an occupation

It's obviously a peaceful protest*. The word "occupation" here is already spin from the side that wants to shut it down and is trying to build a case for doing so. Peaceful protest involves physically assembling and making noise. That is no doubt unpleasant both for those who disagree with the protestors and those who live in the neighborhood, but the right to do this in public is fundamental and vital in democratic…

I live in Ottawa. This is not simply unpleasant noise that the residents downtown are being forced to live through. This is a large number of transport trucks and various general trucks blowing their horns throughout the day and night. There are multiple trucks driving around with train horns which are extremely loud. A lawsuit has been filed against this tactic being used by the protesters (https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/class-action-suit-...)

Nor is it limited to auditory harassment. Some examples: - Convoy protesters harass local shelter for free food. It's not that big a stretch to characterize this as stealing from the homeless since that's specifically who the food is meant for. https://twitter.com/sghottawa/status/1487854425368633344

- Rocks thrown at ambulance as well as anti-asian slurs towards the paramedic https://ottawa.citynews.ca/local-news/rocks-hurled-at-ottawa...

- Protester dances atop national monument "Tomb of the Fallen Soldier" https://ottawa.ctvnews.ca/police-look-to-identify-suspect-in... Explanation for the monument: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_Tomb_of_the_Unknown_S...

Protesters refusing to wear masks within hotels and subjecting employees of said hotels who have given no consent to this behaviour - https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/truck-convoy-polic...

Protesters flying Nazi flags - https://twitter.com/yonifreedhoff/status/1487517973422223374...

Downtown mall forced to close as protesters enter and refuse to wear masks - https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local-news/rideau-centre-clos...

I personally know people who have been verbally intimidated for wearing a mask, one who was screamed at and pushed to the ground for wearing a mask, and another who was threatened with rape as she walked into her place of work.

A number of businesses have closed for the weekend due to safety concerns and have subsequently been brigaded with negative comment and reviews on their google listings.

Of course, you can make the claim that the participants are not actually protesters but could be false flag, paid actors, antifa or whatever. I personally think that's reaching. I've lived here for many years, seeing many large protests come and go, and I've never seen such an influx of hateful incidents.

I fully agree with their right to protest and sympathize with some of their complaints but these tactics are in no way acceptable or peaceful. People need rest and these protesters are denying this to a huge amount of people. People should feel safe walking through the streets of their city and people absolutely do not feel safe walking close to the protests because of the many examples of harassment.

Apologies for the length of the reply but, as you can imagine, it's very disappointing to see these events minimized.

Edit: Fireworks now being launched from a downtown street with many residential buildings close by https://twitter.com/berkley33/status/1490136109061484545

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#592
post #583

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started a reply but realize I was just repeating what I said before. This isn't radical. Organized protests for hundreds of years have demanded public written concession. This is the norm and what organized protest looks like

They want to create a governing committee that is above the power of the government... that's pretty far from "demanding public written concession" That's creating an alternative government

Nobody said anything about above the government..

If my city sets up a school board, that isn't a replacement government or above the power of the government.

Governments delegate power to panels and empowers them to make decisions on their behalf every day.

Asking a government to set up a group to make decisions is not Revolution

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#593

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Children are good at infecting others, for whom it may not be so harmless.

If an at-risk adult doesn't want to get vaccinated at this point, it's on them. Enough with this lunatic safetyism already.

If you made a list off the lunatic safetyism that kids have to put up with these days, I don’t think wearing masks would even make the short list. There’s a lot.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#594
post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A missing piece of this is Canada's Bill C51 [1], which characterizes interference with critical infrastructure as terrorism . A significant difference between CHAZ/CHOP and these protests is the legal context. Looters bad, rah rah, but GoFundMe doesn't want to touch (legally-defined-as) terrorists with a 10 foot pole. But C51 was passed with an eye towards stopping anti-pipeline protests, and conservative Canadians…

I wonder how partisan this anti-mandate resistance is. My gut tells me it enjoys a lot of support from conservatives but also a healthy amount of support from a lot of moderates and a huge swath of the working class regardless of party affiliation.

Anti mandate movements in general have something closer to what you said, but everyone I know that isn't right wing is embarrassed or angry at the convoy, even those who don't like mandates.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#595

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not forced. There any many jobs that don't require a vaccine. It's a choice. A protection racket is enforced through the use of physical violence. Terrible analogy.

By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will. In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine. They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine. Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less.

> By definition, this is forced. Force means to make someone do something against their will.

Yes, but they aren't required to get the vaccine against their will. They have the choice to quit. That's what makes it a choice. If they had no choice to quit, then you would be correct.

> In this case the choice is be fired or take the vaccine.

Exactly.

> They obviously don't want to be fired, so they are being forced to take the vaccine.

Some choices are hard. That's life. As you wrote in the previous sentence, it is a choice.

> Yes, it isn't physical force, but it is forced none the less

No more forced than any other condition of employment.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#596
post #576
post #574

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are those acts defined as terrorism in that jurisdiction?

Does it matter? I’d assume the penalty for funding felony arson and murder aren’t that different from funding terrorism.

Unless you're specifically paying someone to engage in arson and murder, which isn't the case, it's not illegal. Funding terrorists is illegal in a way that funding someone who happens to be a felon isn't.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#597

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A friend was shoved into a snowbank by a protester because she wore a mask. I was verbally assaulted for the same while skating on the canal. They're not peaceful.

I think the real struggle is understanding the degree to which they are peaceful or not. Obviously nothing is black or white. As an example, I was once shoved by a person. People are not peaceful

Isn't it exactly that then? You were shoved into a snowbank once and put this forward as an example of people not being peaceful.

Unsuspecting and uninvolved people are being shoved by protesters. Therefore, this is not a peaceful protest.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#598

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quoted post unavailable.

You do realize something like 90% of truckers have been vaccinated? It doesn't seem like they think anyone involved with the vaccine are evil...

That 90% of truckers aren't the ones in the convoy. Many of them are quite embarrassed at it.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#599

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How is working with the government toward your goal "overthrowing the government"?

Democracy? It’s similar to revolution but without the violence.

Well, the media can’t spend two years telling people that riot and protest are legitimate forms of expression when feeling disenfranchised and then act shocked when all political demographics follow suit (J6, truckers). Want things to calm down? There’s a way to deescalate, but I don’t think the media is a friend in this story - they have a profit incentive to stir up chaos and disorder. People are increasingly losing confidence in elections - the right response isn’t to tell people to shut up, loosen controls and gerrymander, it’s to double up transparency and audits. People are losing confidence in institutional authority - the right response isn’t a public/private alliance on overt censorship, it’s less censorship and encouraging open debate. People feel mandates cause more harm than benefit now and are pissed about the prospect of eternal emergency powers. What’s the right response, Justin, calling in the military?? People increasingly feel the institutional “leaders” are incompetent, full of shit, and focused on the wrong priorities. Very dangerous to have loss of faith in elections concurrently with unsatisfactory office holders.

Re: Florida governor to investigate GoFundMe over Canada trucker donations

#600

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have a right to cross a border and spread a deadly disease. As far as I'm aware, these truckers are allowed to work unvaccinated within their own country.

Which disease, flu? They've likely been spreading that for decades.

Various disease, actually. Not the flu, but most borders will ask that you're vaccinated for a whole host of diseases if you come for professional reasons.
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