Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' • Hacker News Board

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#591

Post by Xplune13 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

teniutza wrote: post #155

Xplune13 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and I don't think people are going to wake up till everyone faces the consequences of climate change in their personal lives, which is quite honestly just sad.

I don't think this is going to be enough. We see everyday people affected by the pandemic yet many of them still refuse to get vaccinated, keep distance or even wear a mask... They will just dismiss these consequences as "one offs"... I believe that our best chance is to do as much as we cand right now and to induce a sense of climate awareness into the younger generations. Bring them up believing, well, actually kno…

It might sound harsh but we're lucky that large scale pandemic like this had comparatively lower death rate, the scenario might've been completely different if it was more fatal. So, I think people will wake up if there are harsher consequences in large of chunk of population in their personal lives than covid (this is pretty horrific that we as humans with all our knowledge and technology can't prevent this without immediate danger).

I know that there are going to be some people even in that case to deny climate change, but that would be significantly smaller minority compared to what it is right now in case of covid (at least I think so).

> I believe that our best chance is to do as much as we cand right now and to induce a sense of climate awareness into the younger generations. Bring them up believing, well, actually knowing, that the climate must be respected and protected constantly.

Yes, I completely agree on this one.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#592

Post by tibiahurried » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

Still, it is so sad to see companies who could avoid their employees commuting and polluting, fighting to get their employees back to the office! This shows how overall businesses and people don’t really care for climate change.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#593

Post by krob » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

ihuk wrote: post #478

We bought an expensive washing machine 3 years ago thinking it will last us a long time. It already broke down twice. It's been broken for almost a month now waiting for parts and whatnot. There's a good chance we'll have to get another one. Does Electrolux/AEG care? No. They don't care about the environment, their only obligation is to their shareholders. But frankly neither do I anymore. Next time, I'll buy the che…

Not sure which country you live in, but if you can get a speed queen branded washer / dryer, you'll likely never have to replace them. They're repairable.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#594

Post by bcrosby95 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:45 PM UTC

endtime wrote: post #420

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Isn't it funny how COVID has caused the government-inclined to want more government and the government-disinclined to want less government? Almost as if this complex issue about which we still don't have all the facts has just made people feel that their prior beliefs have been confirmed? I wonder if there's a phrase for a bias like that.

Isn't it funny how the "government-disinclined" that don't want to wear masks generally support Florida laws that makes it illegal for businesses to mandate masks?

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#595

Post by BobbyJo » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

alexgmcm wrote: post #491

bko wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Believe it or not, western countries have reduced carbon emissions over the last ~15 years, in both absolute and per capita terms (despite a growing population). The only countries that are growing their carbon emissions are developing countries; mainly China, India and Russia. China is particularly troubling since they make up 28% of all emissions (US is 15%) and they have both a growing population and growing emiss…

But how much of this is due to Western nations essentially outsourcing emissions to China by shifting manufacturing etc. there? The per-capita emissions are important because countries with high per-capita emissions likely have a lot of low-hanging fruit. I mean reducing per-capita emissions in the USA could be done by improving public transport etc. whereas in China it would likely be condemning millions of people t…

This. If we tax CO2, we can apply tariffs for CO2 intensive goods produced elsewhere. A tax here can lower emissions overseas as well.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#596

Post by adrianN » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

rory wrote: post #573

adrianN wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best way to do that is probably improving the education of girls in developing countries: https://www.drawdown.org/solutions/health-and-education

This is likely true to some definition of best (which is not exactly most effective ).

For some definitions of best nuclear war is the best way of reducing the population. I think improving education and empowering women is the (or one of the) ethically most defensible ways of reducing population growth.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#597

Post by sailingparrot » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:48 PM UTC

newbamboo wrote: post #574

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

Bingo. It’s great folly to think climate change can be solved by “waking people up” and that whole endeavor probably just makes things worse. It becomes a red/blue issue where nearly half the population take opposing sides, like mindless zombies. A solution, if we are to find one, will not come from the many but from the few, maybe just a single person or invention. Emerging economies pollute, necessarily. That’s the…

> A solution, if we are to find one, will not come from the many but from the few, maybe just a single person or invention.

This is going to sound harsh, but to me this argument seems like a mental contortion to absolve yourself from doing anything and not feel bad about it.

In the past 20 years we have seen significant progress in slowing down, or even reducing for some countries, the emission of CO2. It is not enough, but it's definitely significant. This happened thanks to the many, via awareness campaign and political pressure. And this bought us some precious time.

Even if you truly believe the solution will come from a Messiah appearing with a techno-miracle, you should still push to wake people up: The more people are truly aware of the problem, the more will be interested in working in climate-related tech, giving us more chance for "that single invention" to appear. And you also want the mass to be enlightened about this to continue trying to slow down the train, giving more time for technological breakthrough to appear before we are completely screwed.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#598

Post by alexgmcm » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

Dumblydorr wrote: post #540

Isn't it time to block the sun's radiant energy? What is the real disadvantage to trying to lift a giant solar umbrella that blocks light from hitting the Earth? It may be pricy but we spend billions per climate disaster, if we could use a few falcon heavy launches and reduce incoming energy by 1 or 2%, we could buy ourselves the time to fix our emissions and ramp up carbon capture. The other alternative could be inc…

Neither of these reduce greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere and I'd be concerned that rather than being used as an extremely short-term fix while we reduce emissions they would just become a band-aid to continue business as usual.

The problem is that once we go down that path we'd have to do it permanently, and if we were ever unable to keep up the release of aerosols or the maintenance of the solar umbrella etc. then the temperature would rapidly soar to wherever it would have been in their absence.

It just seems incredibly high-risk and avoids actually solving the root problem. I saw such geo-engineering described as "a band-aid on a bullet wound" which seemed quite apt.

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#599

Post by wutbrodo » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

jsonne wrote: post #360

If there is anything covid has taught me its that collective action isn't something we can rely on and is a lot more wishful thinking about the state of humanity rather than a sober look at the reality. Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program (you get $x for each ton you…

> Governments need to tax CO2 emissions on the business side and pour the money into carbon capture technology in the private space through investment and perhaps some sort of bounty program

Unfortunately, getting this proposed, passed without mutilation, and enforced is also a collective action problem.

Though I agree with your implied point that decentralized solutions should be the baseline, especially as they don't preclude coordinated action if that somehow becomes possible. To do otherwise is to pointlessly leave a powerful, relatively easy-to-deploy policy tool on the table for essentially religious reasons.

Unfortunately, there's a pretty powerful contingent of superstitious economic illiterates in our politics that see market-based solutions as automatically suspect, in the same way that there are powerful scientific illiterates that see nuclear as "unclean" (which is basically "unholy" laundered by modernity).

> I'm past hoping for people to do the right things en masse

What scares me is that there doesn't even seem to be a constituency for bold action on climate. I used to at least be comforted by the political left carrying the torch, but the most recent iteration of the party has a "climate policy" that just dresses up the same old unrelated economic wishlist in climate rhetoric like a skinsuit (again, any proposal that doesn't emphasize nuclear is unserious; the Green New Deal explicitly rejects it)

Re: Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity'

#600

Post by frockington1 » Mon, Aug 09, 2021, 1:49 PM UTC

bb123 wrote: post #89

helsinkiandrew wrote: post #23

> Climate change: IPCC report is 'code red for humanity' What almost alarms me more than the thought of a climate apocalypse is that I don't think this (a UN report) is going to have any effect on the opinions of 40% of the public who see climate change as some kind of job destroying conspiracy. Nothing short of Florida disappearing under the sea is going to make any difference, perhaps we (as a species) don't deserv…

Do you not think that "code red" fatigue is part of this? Ordinary people are bombarded with messages predicting doom at some distant point in the future for one reason or another on an almost daily basis, and yet life rolls on.

I can't remember the last time Miami Beach wasn't going to be underwater '{X} years from now'. When everything is a Code Red, nothing is. Happens at work all the time too