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Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

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Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#593
One of the things this election, and the last four years, has shown me, is the impact of technology on our political discourse. It hasn't been a "good" insight.

Federal Election records indicate that the leadership of technology companies overwhelmingly supported a set of values that their employees appear to just as overwhelmingly reject. That dissonance is really quite remarkable.

I see one of the fundamental challenges facing the new administration is how to address this. I am not a fan of government regulation, more of a "let the markets decide" kind of guy. I recognize however there is a systemic risk where the technology "owner" can exploit it to harm society in a way that was previously impossible.

While the country has focused on disinformation and hate speech, consider a company that controls, in real time, the self-driving software in a car. Such a technology, if weaponized, to could kill hundreds of thousands of people. Or it could be weaponize to kill select people who were in the intersection of riding in a self-driven car and in disfavor by the company that really controls that car.

Early on in my career I chose not to work for military contractors who were the "big" employers in Los Angeles at the time I graduated from college. They were clearly engaged in finding clever, or at least more effective, ways to kill people and that wasn't where I wanted to spend my time. But what about someone working on self driving? It saves lives by avoiding some of the things end up resulting in crashes. But it also provides an opportunity for great evil.

Do we trust the person in charge to not be evil? Companies change and while they might declare their intentions when they are growing, what happens when they are on top? Sometimes those quaint notions get cast aside when being a little bit evil makes what you're trying to do that much easier or maybe that much more profitable.

What is the appropriate response, in a democracy, to a small number of people controlling a potential weapon that can destroy that democracy? Sadly this is no longer an idle question.

I don't have any answers here, just more questions.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#594

What is really keeping me up at night is the existential problem the US faces for the next 50 years: the ever increasingly large divide that is the polarizing of the electorate. We have to come together as Americans or someone will divide and conquer us.

Political pluralism in other democratic countries seems to do a good job of countering this trend. When there's only two parties they are free to drift to ideological extremes, without other parties being able to take up the center.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#595
post #124

Can we have a conversation about broader implications of the increasing power in the public discourse of Twitter et al.? I’m no Trump supporter but I do wonder if the tables were turned and Twitter e.g. turned Biden’s page into a wall of hidden tweets because of something it disagreed with (there are enough grievances with Big Tech from both sides). Do people think this is isolated (because Trump is, well, Trump) or…

The trend where large Internet platforms control political content propagation will intensify, and prevail in the end. Elites all over the world will not easily cede control of important narratives, which they wield in traditional media (news paper, TVs). For me, deleting COVID misinformation is ok. Blocking Trump's tweet on the election results is a bit more dubious (why not leave it to the people to judge, which are given the right to vote anyway?). And we will see more of these in the coming years.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#596

To me what this election (as well as the 2016 election) illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had. In no sane world should it have been difficult for the Democrats to defeat Donald Trump in 2016. He had no history in political office, and he lost the popular vote to just about the worst candidate the Democrats could have put up. Had the Democrats put up anyone who was less divisive than Hillary Clinton t…

I have a theory that non-progressive Democratic voters are so concerned with candidates' perceived "electability" that they're repeatedly picking unexciting candidates who end up being less electable. The Democratic party needs to focus on increasing turnout (a potentially huge pool of new voters) rather than swaying an extra 2-4% of consistent moderate voters over, IMO.

Republican voters don't seem to have the same problem. I mean, Trump was probably the least "electable" candidate of all time. But he got a lot of people excited about voting.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#597

To me what this election (as well as the 2016 election) illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had. In no sane world should it have been difficult for the Democrats to defeat Donald Trump in 2016. He had no history in political office, and he lost the popular vote to just about the worst candidate the Democrats could have put up. Had the Democrats put up anyone who was less divisive than Hillary Clinton t…

> illustrates, is what a poor set of choices we have had.

> We need better candidates who generate real support and appeal other than just not being their opponent. Not sure how to get there.

This is in great part due to First Past The Post voting method[1] employed. The US isn't interested in democracy if they can't at least move from FPTP to something at least as good as Approval Voting. (Which is one of the simplest alternatives)

Some criterions FPTP does no meet from Wikipedia[1][2]:

1. Mutual Majority Criterion: if a majority (more than 50%) of voters top-rank some k candidates, then one of those k candidates must win.

2. Condorcet Winner Criterion: if a candidate would win a head-to-head competition against every other candidate, then that candidate must win the overall election.

3. Condorcet Loser Criterion: if a candidate would lose a head-to-head competition against every other candidate, then that candidate must not win the overall election.

4. Independence of Irrelevant Alternatives Criterion: the election outcome remains the same even if a candidate who cannot win decides to run.

5. Independence of Clones Alternatives Criterion: the election outcome remains the same even if an identical candidate who is equally-preferred decides to run.

6. No favorite betrayal: Can voters be sure that they do not need to rank any other candidate above their favorite in order to obtain a result they prefer?

At least consider how 2, 4, and 6 affect alternatives like Howie Hawkins, Bernie Sanders, or Gloria la Riva to name some examples. I find it hypocritical when US government officials criticize 1-party states when the US is a 2-party state and as if that was a big qualitative difference.

[1]: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/First-past-the-post_voting#/Effe...

[2]: https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Comparison_of_electoral_systems#...

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#598
post #322

What is really keeping me up at night is the existential problem the US faces for the next 50 years: the ever increasingly large divide that is the polarizing of the electorate. We have to come together as Americans or someone will divide and conquer us.

I was talking to a US expat this afternoon. Besides the congratulations and commenting the expectations for the new administration we reflected on the damage the last 30-40 years of propaganda for individualism have made. Individuals, their inner world and potential are very important, but you have systematically mortified the importance - and the “evolutionary advantage” - of the human societal organization. Over op…

Thanks for this perspective.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#599

It's amazing. My friends on the left think the only reason for voting trump is racism, and friends on the right think the only reason for voting biden is socialism. Where did all the intellect go? The social dilemma documentary I think is very useful. It feels like social media bubbles are a large component, although of course there have been many contentious elections in the past. Being centrist I can relate to part…

> Where did all the intellect go?

It's hard to have an intellectual debate in 120-character snippets on platforms that promote outrage over reason.

Re: Biden wins White House, vowing new direction for divided U.S.

#600
My biggest concern is how seemingly so many conservative people are becoming huge conspiracy theorists. I don't mean normal conspiracy theories like there being something more behind the JFK assassination, but like QAnon, Bill Gates injecting people with microchips, Pizzagate, etc. A lot of people in my own family in a rather backwards state believe that stuff. It's making me completely lose faith in this country and I'm seriously considering getting out because of this widespread idiocy.

How do you even begin to "meet in the middle" or have reasonable conversations with people who believe in that stuff?

edit: Don't really understand why this was de-nested from the original parent comment down to the third-fourth page :/

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