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I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

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Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#591

Post by theandrewbailey »

pkulak wrote: post #260
WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

Just a point about the loud graphics cards: all of them now don't even spin their fans unless you are gaming. So it is kinda nice to spend a bit of money on one to get two machines in one (work and play).

I've had some very cheap cards that ramp up to 100% when powered on, making quite a racket. After 5 seconds, they would slow to something more reasonable.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#592

Post by greyhair »

MrGilbert wrote: post #529
lhl wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't hitting the top clocks, but sustaining them. Only the biggest "desktop replacement" class laptops tend to be able to sustain 120W+ CPU dissipation. Note that workstation-class (H) laptop CPUs also make compromises on performance - the Ryzen 9 4900H is 8C16T but only has 4MB L2$, 8MB L3$, and a max TDP of 54W. A desktop Ryzen 9 3950X by comparison is 16C32T and has 8MB L2$, 64MB L3$, and a 105W defau…

> Only the biggest "desktop replacement" class laptops tend to be able to sustain 120W+ CPU dissipation. Yes. And as a bonus, I can use my Alienware 17 R4 as a throwing weapon. Or for workout. And the power brick is a perfect cup warmer. But I like it, nonetheless.

Hey! I never thought of using the brick to keep my coffee warm. It is even the right size. Excellent! Thanks....

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#593

Post by greyhair »

wruza wrote: post #448
Filligree wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure. The NVMe that gives you 2GB/s write may throttle to only 500 MB/s after a few seconds of writes, but-- How often is that a problem, really?

NVMe throttling from 2GB/s to 0.5GB/s is usually not thermal , it is an SLC cache exhaustion that brings a drive back to MLC/TLC packing mode. One can get samsung pro or a similar ssd and it will retain 2GB/s indefinitely. On cheaper drives, having a lot of free space (i.e. slc cache) may help. Not sure though what process can generate such sustained write bandwidth beyond few things like copying or video transcoding…

Which is why I replaced the cheap drive in my build desktop with a Samsung Pro NVME. It made a significant difference.

Multithreaded builds (make -j 24) can really hammer the drive. Read and write interleaved, which uses up cache in both directions.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#594

Post by EliRivers »

WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

Well yeah, but you're Walter Bright, aren't you.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#595

Post by [deleted] »

justinclift wrote: post #425
WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

> Premade powerful computers are always "gaming machines" ... Only for consumer level ones. Higher end ones are "workstations" and can generally be specced from mid-range-consumer-level to almost-a-friggin-supercomputer-node. ;) As a bonus, no RGB. :) Examples: * https://www.quietpc.com/sys-amd-workstation * https://www.dell.com/en-us/work/shop/workstations-isv-certif... * https://www8.hp.com/us/en/workstations/deskt…

[deleted]

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#596

Post by II2II »

xiphias2 wrote: post #270
II2II wrote: post #265

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The lack of an upgrade path wouldn't be as much of a concern if laptops actually shipped with decent specifications to begin with. One thing that caught me off guard was the number of low end models with 4 GB of RAM and pricier models limited to 8 GB RAM. With Windows using nearly 2 GB on boot and a chunk being used for the GPU, that doesn't leave much for applications. Having a non-upgradable CPU is not a huge issue…

I feel the same with SSD, although it's replacable. Often it's cheaper to buy the smallest SSD option, throw it out and buy a new 2TB SSD instead of asking for it integrated.

Agreed. While I was responding from the perspective of disposable would be more acceptable if they were actually usable for a significant period of time, I do look for a replaceable SDD. Granted, that is mostly because I expect a data recovery path should the machine break.

Overall though, I would be happier if manufacturers were clear on what you are getting. While I do some real work on my laptop, I tend to offload most of my work onto a desktop. This means that I look for a handful of key features and don't care about the rest. Unfortunately, my last laptop purchasing experience was a nightmare. Researching a couple of laptops took more time than deciding upon parts for a desktop build and, of course, you have to look at more than a couple of laptops to find something that is acceptable in terms of features, performance, and price.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#597

Post by lhl »

Tsiklon wrote: post #561
lhl wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't hitting the top clocks, but sustaining them. Only the biggest "desktop replacement" class laptops tend to be able to sustain 120W+ CPU dissipation. Note that workstation-class (H) laptop CPUs also make compromises on performance - the Ryzen 9 4900H is 8C16T but only has 4MB L2$, 8MB L3$, and a max TDP of 54W. A desktop Ryzen 9 3950X by comparison is 16C32T and has 8MB L2$, 64MB L3$, and a 105W defau…

As an aside you have an interesting notation, using $ to substitute for cache, using that symbol never once crossed my mind hah

Hmm, I suppose it's fallen a bit out of favor recently, I don't see it quite as much as I used to, but it's pretty much standard terminology in the semi industry showing up in everything from academic papers to data sheets (commonly you'll see that as D$ and I$ - data and instruction cache).

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#598

Post by p_l »

morganvachon wrote: post #570
p_l wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Full compliance with Windows 10 Enterprise certification requires ability to enter Setup Mode , where all certificates are deleted and owner has to reload the whole certificate database from scratch. The requirements mentioned by grandparent are for setup where without any extra configuration you can approach a computer with Windows 10 install media and it will install properly.

"The requirements mentioned by grandparent are for setup where without any extra configuration you can approach a computer with Windows 10 install media and it will install properly." You can do this on any x86/x86_64 hardware made in the past 15 years. Whether your machine has a traditional BIOS, UEFI with SecureBoot off, or UEFI with SecureBoot on, Windows 10 will install with zero complaints. You only get to be "c…

"Windows Certified" is part of what drove that.

It also covers "will work as advertised", i.e. certain features will operate properly. And secured boot path is, indeed, one of such features.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#599

Post by vbezhenar »

canofbars wrote: post #556
vbezhenar wrote: post #432

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is there any phone with full open source support? So you can compile Android and run it without any proprietary driver blobs.

Yes. The newest device is the Samsung S3 (2012) https://redmine.replicant.us/projects/replicant/wiki/GalaxyS... You can also run mainline linux on the Nexus 7 2012 but you lose wifi support. Most alternative OSs just use the patched kernel that shipped with the device.

That's a little bit sad state of affairs. But better than nothing, thanks! Latest version was released almost 3 years ago. I wonder if security being taken seriously? It seems that security holes are found more often than that.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#600

Post by pdimitar »

lowmagnet wrote: post #581
onli wrote: post #439

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that's wrong. A heatsink on an NVMe helps to let it run its top speed longer, or forever. Has nothing to do with issues in your case, those things just get warm, and before it gets too hot the heat has to be transported away or they will throttle.

Specifically, a lot of NVMe are right next to GPU placed in PCI slot 1, which is a pretty constant source of heat under load. I installed an EK spreader sandwich on my Samsung NVMe drive, and it made a massive (20° c) difference over stock. It was previously a bare stick with no surface area/thermal sink to pull heat away.

What's an "EK spreader sandwich"? Can you send a link to yours as well?
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