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I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

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Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#581

Post by lowmagnet »

onli wrote: post #439
philliphaydon wrote: post #420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On an NVME? You don't need heatsinks of an NVME. You have much bigger issues in your case if you think heatsinks will help on an NVME.

No, that's wrong. A heatsink on an NVMe helps to let it run its top speed longer, or forever. Has nothing to do with issues in your case, those things just get warm, and before it gets too hot the heat has to be transported away or they will throttle.

Specifically, a lot of NVMe are right next to GPU placed in PCI slot 1, which is a pretty constant source of heat under load.

I installed an EK spreader sandwich on my Samsung NVMe drive, and it made a massive (20° c) difference over stock. It was previously a bare stick with no surface area/thermal sink to pull heat away.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#582

Post by takluyver »

pessimizer wrote: post #340
matthewfcarlson wrote: post #253

It's frustrating to me (as a UEFI engineer) to see and read the fear-mongering on blogs like these. Much of what I do is focused on open-sourcing and making the industry as a whole better. I tend to side with others in the thread that the "end of general purpose computing" isn't a result of manufacturers pushing in a direction but rather following consumers. The percentage of computer scientists, programmers, and ent…

> the "end of general purpose computing" isn't a result of manufacturers pushing in a direction but rather following consumers. This is an even stronger claim than that consumers don't care if their hardware is closed. Consumers aren't begging for their hardware to be closed, and companies aren't passively trying to please them. The vast majority of consumers don't care if their hardware is closed until they discover…

The consumer value of locked down platforms where you can only install approved software is that you mostly don't need to worry about viruses. It's really hard to protect systems against malware if they make it easy to run arbitrary code. People paying $60 per year for antivirus software is a symptom of this.

Of course, Android malware exists too. But Google's approval process, application sandboxing and the ability to remotely remove applications after they're found to be malicious makes it a much smaller problem. It's not something consumers cheer about, but rather something we mostly don't think about when using phones and tablets.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#583

Post by greyhair »

There are a number of misplaced points in this article, but I will focus on two.

UEFI, properly implemented, is a huge improvement over old BIOS. It isn't required to be 'locked', and I have never encountered a Windows laptop or desktop that didn't not allow you to disable secure boot within the BIOS. I am not as familiar with Apple hardware so I will not comment on that.

UEFI and it GUID partition layout is superior to traditional BIOS. I develop within embedded systems that rely on GUID partitions to provide granularity of storage. One current system I support has 34 partitions, to support redundancy, safe image updates, and soft recovery.

With UEFI on the desktop, you can implement the same strategies.

So those are two statements in the post that I found to be misleading, if not outright wrong.

On the hardware front, yes, current era consumer laptops have become completely sealed boxes. If you want to own a laptop that can be upgraded and maintained, you need to buy either a gaming or enterprise laptop.

For most people, and enterprise laptop is only going to be slightly more expensive than a consumer grade device. It is not going to be as slim and 'sexy'. It t will likely have useful ports down the side.

On desktops, as long as you are buying a full sized desktop, I have not seen any (yet) that are not completely equipped with appropriate connectors and cabling to support upgrades.

I have seen 'mini' systems that are completely soldered down, but that is the price you pay for small. Connectors consume real estate.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#584

Post by zarkov99 »

tuatoru wrote: post #378
WalterBright wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's hard to find a full size bluetooth keyboard. I think I went through every keyboard on Amazon and found only one. If you use a USB wireless keyboard, well, there goes one of the two USB slots on the laptop. It's not just the monitor being big, I want lots and lots of pixels. I'm currently running 3840*2160, and have a second monitor attached set up in portrait mode (so I can display a manual page while I work on…

> It's hard to find a full size bluetooth keyboard. not only is that hard, it's hard to find a bluetooth keyboard that isn't laggy as heck and doesn't occasionally freeze for a second or five. Or just give up until you re-pair it. Maybe one of the next 20 that I try... > How big, you ask? A wall size retina display! I've wanted one for 40 years. I have always thought, since Digital Research GEM, that the "desktop" in…

Bluetooth sucks for keyboards. Logitech has a proprietary wireless standard for their high end wireless keyboards and the difference is massive.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#585

Post by ClumsyPilot »

Macha wrote: post #350
TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You answered your own question: CPUs are throttled down when there is too much heat. That happens all the time in a laptop. A desktop with enough air flow never has that problem (unless overclocked).

It depends on your definition of throttled. A CPU that was totally unthrottled would just sit at its boost clock under sustained load, but even desktop CPUs can't manage that, dropping to their base if too much heat is generated. Of course, there are laptops that can't even sustain the base clocks, but some have enough cooling to match that.

Desktop CPUs will do that with a big heatsink - mine is noctua nh-14, and it weighs more than most laptops, at 1.5kg

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#586

Post by zarkov99 »

I am surprised by this article. Obviously laptops are vastly inferior as desktop machines. The trouble now is that laptops are becoming crap as laptops as well. The thermals on my new XPS 15 are garbage and looking around there doesn't seem to be anything better out there.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#587

Post by Markoff »

Markoff wrote: post #497
WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

I have laptop and 1. 32" external display 2. wireless fullsize keyboard 3. wireless mouse 4. two hard drives inside, no problem to upgrade if I felt like 5. agree, laptop taking some space, but if I really cared I could buy vertical stand 6. so does mine laptop 7. my laptop has 4, I use permanently only 1 8. I could replace pretty much everything besides motherboard and CPU 9. so are refurbished good quality thinkpad…

wow, hacker news doesn't recognize even normal linebreaks...

in case someone thinks I dunno how to write

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#588

Post by hexa00 »

I went one step further.

Use a server! , You can get cheap used, Dual Xeons 12 cores, with like 128G of ram on ebay for about 1000$

And that's not the only thing you get compared to a regular desktop you get:

  - IPMI
  - Dual Power supply
  - Hot swappable drives!
  - ECC Ram (nice for zfs)
  - A decent Motherboard with PCI extensions
But yes it sounds like a airplane, but the idea is to put that computer away from your desk in a closet or in your basement.

Thanks to Fiber Optic based DisplayPort cables, I have my server 30 ft away from me in the basement. My work area is dead silent!

Note I also use a usb extender and a usb DAC, so I got 2 long cables and I get keyb/mouse/audio and 4K 60Hz video.

I think a comparable spec new desktop would have cost about 5-10k..

With the savings I was able to get a PCI card with NVME drives, and 2x16TB drives and that was still cheaper :)

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#589

Post by greyhair »

WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

Yes on all points except 10.

You can buy fairly powerful desktops configured with just the on chip graphics or inexpensive business class graphics cards.

I'll add a '13' to your list.

13. Bluetooth is evil, and any desktop I have seen with Bluetooth had it on a mini-pcie card, and could be yanked. My desktop is always cabled via 1Gb Ethernet, so if yanking the BT also loses the WiFi, I don't really care.

If you are using wireless keyboards/mice, I don't know if the logitech adapters are more or less secure than BT. That could be an entire separate thread.

Re: I am seriously considering going back to desktop computers

#590

Post by greyhair »

reader_mode wrote: post #514
WalterBright wrote: post #16

I prefer a desktop because: 1. I like big, big monitors. 2. I prefer a full size keyboard. 3. I prefer a separate mouse. 4. I prefer big freaking disk drives installed. 5. I put the desktop under my desk, and with a wireless keyboard and wireless mouse, there is much less of a snarl on my desk. 6. The desktop has an optical drive I still use. 7. The desktop has lots of USB ports and they're all in use. 8. I can repla…

I've worked on a laptop for the past decade but I use a dedicated keyboard, mouse almost exclusively and a large 34'' monitor (2x24 previously). Advantages of using a laptop : - portability - I work as a consultant and I need to work on premises occasionally - if I had to switch between desktop/laptop it would be too cumbersome - standalone when you need it - when I travel or am on vacation I usually need to do a few…

Best of both worlds.

My laptop only runs Office 365 for email, calendar, and the occasional word doc. It also runs Slack and a browser for zoom meetings as access to Jira/Bugzilla web interface.

Oh, and RDP into XFCE on Ubuntu on the desktop that runs as a server.

Plus the server is cabled up to development platforms (serial ports, remote power, GPIO, JTAG, USB). So it cannot move, and even if it were a laptop, it could not move.

I don't require the laptop to be upgradeable or powerful, it is just the UI into the rest of the system.

It currently sits here with the lid closed cabled to a 27 inch display.

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