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Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

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Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#591

Post by ffpip »

user5994461 wrote: post #550
ffpip wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They got every single kid to enable 2FA on Epic Accounts by giving a free skin. My brother even asked me 'how to 2FA?'

They did that in order to collect the phone number from the kid? edit: Their 2FA can do either SMS or email so that's a yes.

No. They did that to avoid VBucks (fortnite money) scams. That happens a lot. So if you want to send or receive Vbucks, they forced you to turn on 2FA. Good move.

They also offer the software token method, but most kids will not enable it.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#592

Post by jbverschoor »

user5994461 wrote: post #570
kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like the mafia asking me to pay up or else they will kidnap my children, and when I refuse to pay up and my children get kidnapped, you tell me "Well this was one of the things you knew was going to happen". If the demands are unfair or extortionate I don't blame people for not capitulating to them. This the same idea that forms the basis of civil disobedience.

I don't think it's fair to compare the case to child abduction. Epic can continue to serve Fortnite just fine through the app store while the case goes though court. There is nobody being kidnapped and murdered here.

What if they actually can’t? For example if trump kicks out fortnite?

I’m sure there have been some incidents, maybe murder, related to fortnite.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#593

Post by viridian »

Spivak wrote: post #141
AlexandrB wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is news to me. Which one?

Yeah wait, what? The PS5 has so much hype right now and had some of the best exclusives of this console generation, the Switch has been sold out for months, and the Series X reveal was kinda meh but it's not like the Xbox has been hurting.

Xbox's financials last two years have been flagging at roughly -2% revenue over expenditures both years, making them the least profitable division within microsoft. This, coupled with the fact that their games software itself had a +30% margin in the 2019 shareholder report, and it's not hard to see the Series X as a possible last ditch effort by the hardware teams.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#594

Post by grumple »

lolsal wrote: post #580
grumple wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an Apple user, I think you’re crazy. It being locked down is the worst part about it and the main reason I’m considering moving off Apple in the future. Also as a developer deploying anything Apple-related is a pain.

> As an Apple user, I think you’re crazy. It being locked down is the worst part about it and the main reason I’m considering moving off Apple in the future. If it makes you feel any better, I have never, ever, felt "locked down" in the Apple ecosystem. We must live very different lives because I never think about my phone - I think about messaging people, sending emails, looking something up on the web, getting dire…

> scummy devs like Epic

What makes them scummy? They want to make money without paying Apple's 30% (for what? hosting the app would cost Epic very little, payment processing costs > side-loading malware because it's cool, or jailbreaking so I can put drop shadows on random things

The whole point is that you shouldn't need to side-load or jail-break anything. You can put any app you want on your pc or linux machine. And no, we aren't all operating with tons of malware on those machines.

> they bring me no value.

Do you pay for any apps? Wouldn't them costing 20% less bring you value in a very literal, "more money in your bank account" sense?

> I would challenge this or at least dismiss this as an opinion - I have apps in both the iOS and Android stores and deploying on iOS is a breeze compared to Android.

This is simply not true. It's not a matter of opinion, there are fewer steps/fields to fill out and less time involved in deploying an Android app. Android also charges less.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#595

Post by lolsal »

drenvuk wrote: post #588
lolsal wrote: post #578

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a fallacy to think you can play gatekeeper regarding 'hacking' just because I (or more generally the HN audience) like and value one phone ecosystem over another. Surely you knew that already though, right?

He's not playing gatekeeper. Hackers have generally been known to like open systems or to force closed ones open. Just look at history. You're talking about a phone ecosystem, he's talking about a closed ecosystem.

They are implying I'm not a hacker because I like the Apple ecosystem, aren't they?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#596

Post by drenvuk »

lolsal wrote: post #595
drenvuk wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's not playing gatekeeper. Hackers have generally been known to like open systems or to force closed ones open. Just look at history. You're talking about a phone ecosystem, he's talking about a closed ecosystem.

They are implying I'm not a hacker because I like the Apple ecosystem, aren't they?

They're implying that you're not a hacker because you appear to lack the hacker's mindset. Maybe you have it for some interests but not others but from the hackers that I've seen it's usually a driver for much of their technology interaction.

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#597

Post by 52-6F-62 »

bogwog wrote: post #353
52-6F-62 wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't say that, no. And I didn't think Google was involved here?

Google is totally involved. They aren’t as egregious about it as Apple, but they are equally guilty of stomping out competition. If you get blacklisted from Google Play, you’re basically done. Your cost for acquiring new users just skyrocketed because you now have to somehow educate people on how to enable “unknown sources”, convince them to ignore all of the incessant scary warnings about malware, etc. on top of you…

Google is involved in Epic's dispute with Apple? I'm sorry, but I haven't seen that anywhere. Could you clarify?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#598

Post by jsjohnst »

mmis1000 wrote: post #586
jsjohnst wrote: post #571

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The AltStore app refreshes automatically in the background, so as long as your phone is on the same wifi once per seven days, that’s it. You don’t need to do anything else. Try reading past the fold and you’ll find direct quotes like this: > AltStore will periodically attempt to refresh your apps in the background, and you can always manually refresh your apps from within AltStore.

I honestly though "you can keep the app as long as you connect the wifi" and "safari won't wipe your data a long as you enter the site one time in every several days" the same kind of bs. It's not solution, it is workaround for the apple's creepy behavior.

> It's not solution

Because you don’t want solutions, you just want to complain about Apple not doing exactly what you want when you want. Apple’s not your company if you expect them to cater to your whims, that’s never been their MO (for better or for worse).

> apple's creepy behavior

Really?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#599

Post by cafed00d »

jariel wrote: post #477
cafed00d wrote: post #445

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do the top 100 apps on iOS feel the same way though? Does every developer out there think 30% commission on paid apps is tyranny? I feel like it's a reasonable trade-off. Free apps don't cost you much (yes, $99 for dev tools is not much honestly. It keeps away spurious bots and spammy accounts). Paid apps cost 30% -- if the dev decides to charge outrageous prices then well, Apple will take an outrageous cut). Most ap…

"Does every developer out there think 30% commission on paid apps is tyranny?" Combined with the ambiguity, lack of choice, threats to business - absolutely yes, iOS is basically universally reviled by developers. Nobody on this planet accepts that the 30% is necessary for anything ergo, it's a massive chunk out of profits. Most companies are not hugely profitable. In many cases, Apple is making considerable more pro…

Ok, I can see that my opinion is getting super-downvoted. But I genuinely fail to understand why developers' opinions should be treated with so much reverence.

It sounds to me like the _only_ reason developers are clamoring against the App Store is because some fraction of developers are unhappy about a high commission. It's on the same lines are some people out there unhappy about Apple's high prices. In both cases, you should vote with your wallets -- do not buy Apple devices or develop for Apple devices.

>Combined with the ambiguity, lack of choice, threats to business Would you say that there was abundant choice for developers before the iPhone? What would you develop for -- Blackberry? Nokia? None of those manufacturers had anything remotely close to the iPhone. Right?

Would you say that a 3rd party developer who writes a "flashlight" app is really a legitimate business? Ok, I'll acknowledge the beef with Spotify and the threat an integrated platform can pose in that regard. So what would you propose Apple do? Pay software engineers on their payroll to help Spotify sell music on the iPod (oops; I mean iPhone)?

>Most companies are not hugely profitable. >In many cases, Apple is making considerable more profit off of apps than developers themselves. >For a $1 spent, about 25 cents to Apple mostly profit, then 70 cents to the dev which will mostly be dev., ad. and op. costs.

All this goes to show is that Apple is hugely expensive platform to develop for. Massively expensive! I am sincerely trying to understand _why_ would any developer _need_ to take this expense if they cannot afford it? Can't you develop a web app instead?

Re: Apple Disabling 'Sign in with Apple' for Epic Games on September 11

#600

Post by nodamage »

staticman2 wrote: post #22
RL_Quine wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Intentionally breaking the rules and filing a lawsuit against them with a marketing campaign isn't as if apple just decided they "didn't like" Epic.

Epic's legal position as I understand it is that Apple is behaving illegally and they likely had to break the illegal rule for standing to sue.

Epic already had standing to sue from the $300 million in Fortnite IAP fees Apple has collected.
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