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The PyCon Incident

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Re: The PyCon Incident

#581

Post by paranoiacblack »

ratat wrote: post #311
blhack wrote: post #7

I would also like a response from Sendgrid here. Somebody they sent to a conference, who was representing their company there, went on a personal vendetta against somebody and got them fired. That's awful, and I join the people I see online right now in saying that I cannot, in good conscience, ever do business with a company that supports that behavior. --And to how far Adria has set back womens' rights here-- The c…

> They don't want to get treated like "a girl" That's the thing. If this isn't what she wants, then she shouldn't act like such an incredibly immature child. What she did was many times more 'immature' than what the men allegedly said. They allegedly exchanged a harmless, obviously immature joke between themselves, and should have been quieter given the setting. That's their fault. She then responds by posting a slan…

Hmm, that 'teach them a lesson' part sounds like you're projecting, but I won't make any assumptions about your beliefs.

I'm curious though, what evidence are you looking for exactly? A signed paper where both men agree that their conduct was inappropriate and violating Pycon rules or something? A recording of them saying it? Your argument seems to be built around this idea of proof of someone's speech and I'm just wondering how exactly you would have a proved it. Because it definitely happened, maybe not exactly as she retold it, but it definitely happened.

P.S. Your example is extremely creepy and out of context, entirely. There's no logical reason to believe she would do that. But there's also no logical reason to boycott the company because they won't fire her either, so YMMV.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#582

Post by drivebyacct2 »

Wow, if half as much attention and thought were put into how to fix real problems with sexism in the tech community instead of on pissy temper tantrums (on both sides), think how much actual progress we'd be able to make.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#583

Post by marshray »

obstacle1 wrote: post #574
revelation wrote: post #141

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I understood correctly, Adria is not another employee, but has the role of developer evangelist. In that role, your twitter account is very much an extension of your job.

In that light, I do not understand how this woman is still employed. https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/6039856858 Who exactly is she "evangelizing" for? All developers? I find that really hard to believe given her extremely public politics.

I can't imagine what an HR department would have to say about the advisability of firing such a person.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#584

Post by mrchess »

rdl wrote: post #145

Curious where the guys worked. (Oh, apparently PlayHaven, some mobile game LTV maximization company, like Zynga with even less emphasis on gaming and more on extracting money from idiots. So, no great loss...)

Hey, the guy had a wife and kids. He is just trying to make a living. Come on...

Re: The PyCon Incident

#585

Post by vilda »

rdtsc wrote: post #529
georgeorwell wrote: post #470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is indecent is that Adria Richards completely invented the bit about forking being a sexual reference ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 ), escalated her discomfort to the level of internet drama, got her employer SendGrid to support her, and didn't exactly go out of her way to petition PlayHaven to unfire one of the two guys involved. And she's now sticking to her guns even after profusive apologies…

The outcome I'd want to see is for both companies and Adria Richards to apologize. I would want him to be offered his job back (but I hope he gets better offers and I wouldn't be shocked if he hasn't already. I would certainly call him up for an interview). If public humiliation is the new modus operandi, then it seems it is a double edged sword. I think her reputation is forever tarnished. Maybe she had good intenti…

My impression is that Adria Richards is not that kind of a person to apologize.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#587

Post by Karunamon »

paranoiacblack wrote: post #552
Karunamon wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tweet and a blog post that named and shamed two people, personally, in what I believe to be the biggest example of blowing something out of proportion in recent memory. So if I get this right.. Someone says a joke that offends you, in earshot, but not to you, and you take this as your opportunity to photograph them, get them kicked out of a con, fired, pilloried in public? And then you take to your blog to defend y…

Hmm, ever hear of slippery slope arguments? Because there's clearly a limit to the situation you're describing and clearly offense is relative. So, since you didn't specify any level of severity, let's assume the joke that offended you was about harming someone or themselves. I mean, people say things like "I want to kill the guy the wrote this" or "oh god, this makes me want to kill myself" jokingly. Would it be oka…

>Would it be okay then or would I still be a colossal fucking idiot?

If your response to your first example was to do what the person we're talking about did, then yes, you would be an idiot.

>Okay, how about if someone was threatening to harm a political figure as a joke?

Yup.

>Or what if the joke insulted people of a different race for their cultural beliefs?

Yup.

In my arrogant opinion, nothing short of lewd and obscene sexual discussion or threats of bodily harm should have led to the sequence of events we have here in front of us.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#588

Post by marshray »

paranoiacblack wrote: post #552
Karunamon wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A tweet and a blog post that named and shamed two people, personally, in what I believe to be the biggest example of blowing something out of proportion in recent memory. So if I get this right.. Someone says a joke that offends you, in earshot, but not to you, and you take this as your opportunity to photograph them, get them kicked out of a con, fired, pilloried in public? And then you take to your blog to defend y…

Hmm, ever hear of slippery slope arguments? Because there's clearly a limit to the situation you're describing and clearly offense is relative. So, since you didn't specify any level of severity, let's assume the joke that offended you was about harming someone or themselves. I mean, people say things like "I want to kill the guy the wrote this" or "oh god, this makes me want to kill myself" jokingly. Would it be oka…

Right, you let two guys in private conversation snicker about the word "dongle" and the next thing you know people will be threatening to kill political figures with impunity.

I've got one word for that: Lol.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#589

Post by codygman »

ceol wrote: post #573
jimminy wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

She did post a picture of them, wearing their companies t-shirt, resulting in one of the individuals to be released from his job.

I'm still not seeing the part where their reputations were publicly dragged through the mud. To do that, you would have to identify them, and the only people who know them are the ones who paid for their trip in order to represent them: their employers. It's a shame he got fired, but I don't necessarily blame his company. I wouldn't want someone telling dick jokes and making me look bad doing it on my dime.

A name isn't the only form of identification, which is proven by one of the guys getting fired.

Re: The PyCon Incident

#590

Post by adamnemecek »

anigbrowl wrote: post #576
adamnemecek wrote: post #402

Someone on reddit dug up an old tweet from her. "Black people CANNOT be racist against White people. Racism is a position of the oppressor who has the power" https://twitter.com/adriarichards/status/6039856858 Words fail me. (I realize that it's unrelated but it provides some insight into her mentality).

This accurately reflects a particular academic school of thought. But this whole discussion is gnarly enough already without further complicating it by adding race issues into the mix. I'm not prepared to parse that without understanding the context in which the remark was made, and I have no intention of digging through a conversation from 2009 to do so. I can't help feeling you went on a fishing expedition here.

As I said, someone in the reddit thread that antirez linked to did the digging.

>> This accurately reflects a particular academic school of thought.

Holocaust as well accurately reflected a particular academic school of thought. Does that mean it's correct? (does this count as invocation of Godwin's law?)

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