521–530 of 1001 posts
Hmm this is interesting. This post is only 2 hours old with 535 points, yet it is ranked below "You just went to the Google homepage. What actually happened?" with 488 points at 7 hours old. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5408597 Is there some weighted voting going on?
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it's not an outrage she spoke up. she overheard an inappropriate comment and proceeded to publicly drag these guys' reputations through the mud. between the two actions (private, inappropriate comments in a public space, or calling out the pitchforks), her action was clearly worse, and in real terms more damaging.
She didn't drag their reputations through anything, because I don't believe they were named. She only asked the PyCon organizers to do something about them via Twitter.
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As a SendGrid customer, it concerns me that SendGrid would stand behind the initiation of a public controversy under such questionable circumstances, especially one that resulted in the firing of a developer from his job. SendGrid should be in the business of email deliverability, not public shaming. Edit: I've tempered my phrasing above quite a bit and removed references to individuals.
If my reading of her account is correct, the person who got fired was suggestion that Adria "check out his big dongle" which is a very explicit sexual joke directed at a specific stranger (her). The joke that she's making there is that her male friend should stuff socks in his pants to shock the screening TSA agent. This joke is not targeted at anyone in particular. The comment she's replying to is a factual descript…
This write up is ridiculously biased. If you read Adria's write up, which includes the photo, you can see that there's absolutely nothing private about the conversation. Look at the photos in http://butyoureagirl.com/14015/forking-and-dongle-jokes-dont... You can see that the two guys are in very crowded presentation room surrounded by other people. Their conversation, unless whispered, would be clearly audible by ma…
Ugh, both this and the original post disturb me greatly. I sense a good deal of hypocrisy and bad faith on both sides (though much much more so on the, and excuse the terminology but I can't think of any better, "anti Adria" side). The original story should have been a good one: PyCon has codes of conduct, and procedures in place if those are not followed. Some jerks weren't behaving appropriately, it was settled in…
While I don't completely agree with every nuance of what you present, I am impressed with your ability to understand and articulate the complexities of the situation. "PyCon has codes of conduct, and procedures in place if those are not followed. Some jerks weren't behaving appropriately, it was settled in a fair and appropriate manner - everyone wins!" This is the core of what happened. PyCon issued a statement sayi…
The problem is it's not the entirety of what happened. We can't use this as an example of the "PyCon system" working, because it's not that - it's some other system where people complain publicly and then PyCon responds - hopefully not purely out of shame (I have absolute faith in the PyCon people and their absolute earnestness, it's just that the ambiguity is there regardless).
Likewise the actual outcome overall is not fair or satisfying for anyone in my opinion. Some guys were publicly shamed needlessly, Adria gets a backlash instead of focus on a real issue, and we get a bunch of heated discussions with large unproductive sections.
I suppose it's not terribly productive to say "well this didn't work out well", but I'm hoping we can all make sure we avoid something like this next time.
> While I don't completely agree with every nuance of what you present, I am impressed with your ability to understand and articulate the complexities of the situation.
Thank you. I'd be curious if you cared to share some of the points you disagree with.
Why does this always happen at Python or Ruby conferences? I have never heard of such ridiculous drama at C++ conferences for example. There seems to be a curious link between programming languages and culture. I mean people interested in Python can obviously start a major drama over a harmless juvenile comment like that. I remember seeing Andrei Alexandrescu (of C++ and D fame) joke about the double meaning of the t…
The Python community is generally much more like the C++, Java and .NET communities, where professionalism and a lack of drama are the norm.
My suspicion is that at least some of the people involved here may not really be part of the Python community in any sense, but were merely just attendees at one of the largest and most prominent Python conferences.
The "About" page[1] of the blog of one of the individuals involved doesn't currently mention Python once, but does list "Build a Ruby App for something I’m passionate about" as a "Life Goal", and lists "RailsConf" under the "Speaking Events" section. There's also a video entitled "I’m ready to start programming Ruby on Rails" shown on the "Videos" page[2], but none about Python. The "Speaking" page[3] lists "Instructor for RailsBridge Outreach Workshop For Women" at "SFRuby", but again I don't see anything having to do with Python. All of this indicates a much closer relationship with the Ruby community, and essentially none with the Python community.
I think that the Python community, and PyCon, may be the real victims here. They've been unjustly dragged into an incident involving at least one person who does not seem to be part of the Python community, and have suffered undeserved reputation damage as a result of this incident.
[1] http://butyoureagirl.com/about/
Warning regarding the comments here: r/MensRights has recently taken an interest in HN regarding this case. A recent HN thread on this same topic is linked on the homepage[1], and there's been discussion of HN in particular here[2]. There's an agenda being pushed. Furthermore, the above PasteBin alleges the forking innuendo was pure fabrication in an attempt to paint Adria as a liar; the full story right from the sou…
The fact that there are some comments on Reddit calling Adria Richards a bitch doesn't seem relevant to this submission. You can find crazy opinions on the internet from either side of a politically charged story submitted here. The community here will filter the comments as they see fit. I can't speak to the agenda of r/MensRights, or whether or not this is a case of feminism gone too far, but it must be said that y…
I got the opposite impression from the OP. To me, this post practically screamed men's rights. It's dripping with hyperbole (probably the worst of which occurs in the fifth paragraph - "now men will be looking over their shoulder every time a woman is present in the workplace or a conference because hey, she might do what Adria did"), peppered with ad hominem (calling her cowardly, etc...), and makes sexism the focus of the discussion. I read her blog post. Her problem seemed to be that the dongle guys were behaving inappropriately, not being sexist.
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It appears that PyCon staff did handle the incident, and did so sensibly and discretely: http://pycon.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/pycon-response-to-inappr... It's not clear whether that happened before or after the photo was posted. Edit: the code of conduct also says "Public shaming can be counter-productive to building a strong community. PyCon does not condone nor participate in such actions out of respect."
She took the picture before she got the pycon people involved. You can tell because of the times on her tweets. The picture was tweeted at 10:32, and she started calling for the pycon staff at 10:34.
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The office I work in is entirely male, myself included, and just because don how I was raised, these types of jokes make me uncomfortable. However, after I said something about the issue, my coworkers, like most human beings, made an effort to check themselves. However, until you say something, they can't do anything about it. I agree its a decency issue and not a sexism one.
What is indecent is that Adria Richards completely invented the bit about forking being a sexual reference ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=5398681 ), escalated her discomfort to the level of internet drama, got her employer SendGrid to support her, and didn't exactly go out of her way to petition PlayHaven to unfire one of the two guys involved. And she's now sticking to her guns even after profusive apologies…
I would want him to be offered his job back (but I hope he gets better offers and I wouldn't be shocked if he hasn't already. I would certainly call him up for an interview).
If public humiliation is the new modus operandi, then it seems it is a double edged sword. I think her reputation is forever tarnished.
Maybe she had good intentions (but the more I look at the situation, and her penis reference later, less likely it seems) but her execution and decision making cost a father of 3 kids to lose his job, and his face is all over Twitter.
She was a no-name before this. I had never heard of her. Have you? Now she at the top of everyone's lips. She does talking engagements and advocacy. Well you connect the dots yourself.
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as "a women in tech" (god i hate even saying it like that lol) i totally agree. i think what she did was absurd. It wasn't even a lewd or offensive joke. Maybe its my social group but something like that would even cause any of us (more women in tech) to even bat an eye. If it was bothersome in anyway it was they were so loud she was paying more attention to them and they private conversations and not the speaker. Sh…
Maybe its my social group but something like that would even cause any of us (more women in tech) to even bat an eye. My sense is that she herself didn't bat much of an eye until she decided that it was a problem. If you read her account, she acted in order to protect a photograph: I saw a photo on main stage of a little girl who had been in the Young Coders workshop. I realized I had to do something or she would nev…