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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#581
post #445
post #402

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But it's true? How does an automaker that doesn't engage in those tactics compete when the rest of the market does?

Like sugar-free, gluten-free, dairy-free, nut-free food, where the lack of something is sold as something positive. I'd love to buy an ad-free, subscription-free, tracking-free, touchscreen-free car.

Those cars exist but don’t do well in the market. And only when sold by very little money and cheap parts.

People demand connectivity, big screens and lots of software.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The word "American" already unambiguously describes people of the USA. You don't need to make up a new word.

1. Synonyms exist in language. 2. You're on a site with a bunch of programmers who regularly use weird words for stuff that already has a name. Reading through HN is wading through a swamp of made up names and tech neologisms, you're just used to it already. I once told a software guy that our team's SWEs had migrated away from React and Node to Stork.JS and Blackadder. He nodded like that meant anything. 3. I like i…

Stork.JS is a really well written piece of software, though.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#583
post #533

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a myth that EV charging requires an upgrade to a 100 amp connection. Scheduling charging to times when you're not using appliances will still result in a charged vehicle by morning. The Youtube channel Technology Connections has an interesting video where it describes a successful transition to a fully-electric house while remaining on a 50 amp electrical connection. (it requires a smart circuit breaker)

We have a F-150 lightning, and charge it on a 12A, 120V charger. It’s fine for 6-10 trips a week. If I commuted in it to an office without a charger it wouldn’t be fine, but a smaller commuter car would be. (The truck gets 2.5 miles/kWh, commuter cars are at 4-5). I’m sure we are outliers, but still. Put another way: growing up with incandescent bulbs, I remember light switches that would turn on 6-8 lamp track light…

I wonder if the household share of grid power has gone down faster than total power has gone up, and that's why people are worried about EVs taking out the power grid even when everyone's individual house seems to handle it easily enough.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#584
post #547

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Cite your sources, please we need sources for the fact an electric motor, all other things being equal, is better than a combustion engine? If you agree that people in general value the health of their lungs that alone is sufficient reason. It's also becoming quickly a question of geopolitical resilience, running your transport system on dinosaur juice coming from regions where people blow each other up is bad in pa…

> an electric motor, all other things being equal, is better than a combustion engine? This is not the core argument. Motors maybe superior - we can agree on that. The power source (batteries) and the environmental impact they have - that has always been the core argument. [1] Again, without sources, these are just opinions. Sources: [1] https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30046087/

Does the article you cited cost money to read? I found a description on google scholar:

> Ten years left to redesign lithium-ion batteries

> Reserves of cobalt and nickel used in electric-vehicle cells will not meet future demand. Refocus research to find new electrodes based on common elements such as iron and silicon, urge Kostiantyn Turcheniuk and colleagues.

I notice that the article was published in 2018. So I guess we only have to wait two more years to decide if it's right or not. Will we be out of cobalt and nickel by then? I'd be happy to take a bet with you, assuming you stand by the article you cited.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#585

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

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Private aviation.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#586

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

Counterpoint - I returned to China (Beijing) last summer after 9 years and was honestly surprised how LITTLE it has changed over those 9 years, I was expecting big changes reading this tales about Shenzhen, but the reality is maybe only 1/4-1/3 of the cars on the road were EVs, there were pretty much none escooters, people still smoke in restaurants and yes, the air was for the most part perfectly fine, though this was really case in summer even before.

The most noticable change which puzzled me where those big boxes with slots in all restaurants and grocery shops, which are rental powerbanks.

Other than these hardly anything changed, policemen in police station smoked right under no smoking sign and in that half an hour in their office I inhaled more secondary smoke than in years in Europe combined. To their credit they were as laid back as policemen in my small home town. Beijing province border checks are more strict, but they still let us go without registered accommodation on weekend.

Oh yeah, out of dozens restaurants we frequented ONE fancy hot pot restaurant had robot bringing over plates.

Plus Taobao/Tmall seems replaced now with Pinduoduo with super cheap purchases (think double the Alibaba/factory price) including free shipping.

Mutianyu great wall is now fully mainstream, everyone (99%) now use cable car instead of hiking uphill, before it felt at least 50:50, people got lazy.

Ah yeah, everywhere you go you need to present passport and sometimes also book ticket in advance, so from tourist standpoint it's worse, before you could just show up same visit major sights in Beijing even without passport.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#587

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

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They don't come close to the variety and quality of cosmopolitan dining you can get in major American cities. A lot of FOBish Chinese people I've met won't even venture too far outside of Chinese cuisine when going out to dinner.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#588
post #412

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled, then paying rent (or a fee) to turn them on. I'm much more likely to buy from a manufacturer that doesn't play these games. Ongoing subscriptions for access to physical hardware features like seat warmers* seems obnoxious at first glance, but a fee is more reasonable and you might find that there aren’t many auto makers that don’t do this…

I don't disagree in theory, but: Manufacturing one hardware setup and charging separately for features is not the problem. The problem is charging ongoing rent for a feature that isn't an ongoing service. A seat heater doesn't use a server, need content updates, or create meaningful recurring costs for the manufacturer after the car is sold. It shifts the relationship from ownership to permission. It also creates bad…

I agree with that. I don’t know what your prompt was, but I wasn’t arguing in favor of subscription access to hardware, I said flat upfront fee based upgrades make more sense, and I was only pointing out that market segmentation over a single physical product via software feature locks is a pretty common thing and it’s not necessarily a bad thing for consumers, there are some side benefits, some tradeoffs.

I’m not personally into paying subscription upgrades, I tend to avoid them. But the one case where I could see potential for consumer benefit is when there’s a choice between a high upfront fee or a low subscription price. I would assume a subscription price over time will cost more than the upfront fee. However, there’s an argument to be made for lower cost access, for smaller barrier to entry for the upgrade, especially if it can be discontinued if the customer doesn’t find enough value.

There was a motorcycle airbag jacket that offered this choice and was discussed on HN maybe a year or two ago. People were, of course, freaking out about a safety feature being tied to a subscription, and I can totally understand the fear, but the rhetoric around it didn’t match what the actual product offered, and the company was offering the choice between flat fee and monthly fee, not demanding a rent-seeking only option. Personally I think most of the ick feeling of a subscription idea goes away for me if it’s not the only option.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Private aviation.

Depends on your PoV - exerting regulatory pressure to slow use of private jets by Chinese billionaires may well be seen as "doing it better".

* https://www.scmp.com/economy/china-economy/article/3337814/w...

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#590

In Shenzhen for a tech meeting. The streetscape is quieter, despite high traffic levels and I hear not only MORE birdsong, but the birds do more complex songlines. The air is clean. For sure some of this is because it's a coastal city and has fresh sea breezes, but I've been in other Chinese coastal cities in times past and the air was significantly less clean. There are social upsides for an almost-all-EV city. This…

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many things:

indoor smoking ban actually working

you don't need passport and prior booking to visit every single tourist sight

car registration process, good luck in Chinese major cities, even EV won't help you anymore

those come first to my mind

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