581–590 of 728 posts
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The "external pressure" was largely just the pressure of declining membership.
What pressure led to declining membership? Did it have anything to do with "Boy Scouts is a sexist organization" narratives?
Also Tiktok means fewer young boys so bored that they set things on fire.
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You can have a private club with gym equipment that is exclusively for men. But when you're a business open to the public you cannot discriminate based on certain characteristics. Bob's Burgers can't sell just to men. But Bob's Boys Club that happens to have a kitchen which sells burgers to its "private" membership can absolutely keep women out.
> You can have a private club with gym equipment that is exclusively for men. But when you're a business open to the public you cannot discriminate based on certain characteristics. You can if those certain characteristics are currently in favor. Plenty of women only gyms exist
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> is this a concern for many men? It's never crossed my mind or been a problem for anyone I've known. Not for me, I have been to plenty of meetups in my city. If you're not liked or don't get along with the others, the worst that can happen is that you'll be politely ostracized. The paranoia about being publicly "cancelled" seems very overblown.
Well we already have people on this page commenting on the demograpic represented on the submitted web site. Yes, in today's world there are almost always people looking to play "gotcha" and will try to pin you as a racist, misogynist, homophobe, or some other sort of bigot or pariah.
You DO, however, control your own words and actions, and generally those have a strong correlation with how you're perceived. Food for thought.
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You don't need to go to the bouldering gym to make small talk hoping it becomes more than that. You can make small talk everywhere like libraries, cafes, bars, meet-ups, concerts, stand-ups, etc. places where the main activity is talking, not exercising. And if sports is your jam, team sports are better for socializing than solitary sports like bouldering, because you are forced to work together and build connections…
I suppose it’s very different here in the UK then
Even as a German, I sometimes struggle to connect with others for many of the reasons FirmwareBurner mentioned.
I made some good friends through a sports group I attend, which also organizes regular social events outside of training.
But aside from that, many so-called 'low-key social spaces' tend to feel like they're 'only for groups' Not because of any official rules, of course, although some places do advertise things like 'bring your friends', but in practice, you usually see people there in pre-formed groups. These aren’t necessarily close friends either, sometimes it's coworkers or people who already know each other through other contexts.
Those groups tend to stick together, and it's rare for outsiders to be included unless you already know someone who can introduce you.
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I'm sure it's common, but I've always hung around in mixed groups, doing whatever, so I'm puzzled and curious what guy time or girl time even is.
You'll note that most people saying this stuff are being extremely non-specific about what it means. My impression is that a lot of what they want to do would be offensive to lots of guys as well. Essentially they want a space to act in a way that women would feel quite threatened by. Not that mixed groups don't already have that as an issue.
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> Having social space that's limited to a set of people one knows, more or less, and that has rules on behavior seems like a civilizing influence that's missing today. You just described a country club, right down to the innate classism and exclusivity rules.
Country club’s are really a subset of this kind of thing and tend to have an overly wide membership to the point where you’re unlikely to know every member. The VFW is another modern take that’s got a very different vibe. Similarly historically it wasn’t just elitist hangouts. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Working_men's_club
No women to blame there. What is the cause of the male loneliness epidemic then?
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I suppose it’s very different here in the UK then
I think it's kind of a German thing. Even as a German, I sometimes struggle to connect with others for many of the reasons FirmwareBurner mentioned. I made some good friends through a sports group I attend, which also organizes regular social events outside of training. But aside from that, many so-called 'low-key social spaces' tend to feel like they're 'only for groups' Not because of any official rules, of course,…
Nordic, Scandinavian, German, Austrian, Swiss, etc any culture where personal space is valued and talking to random strangers/outsiders in public not the norm.
>but in practice, you usually see people there in pre-formed groups.
Because most people by the age of 25+, or whenever they graduate college/university already have their core social circle solidified and don't have the time, space and energy to seek or even let newcomers in. If you move into town after that age, you're gonna have un uphill battle to squeeze yourself into groups no matter how sociable you are or how good your bouldering skills are unless you run into other similar loners looking for friends, then you're in luck.
It's just the way it is, it's not your fault and not other peoples' fault , hence why I dislike such broad stroke one size fits all advices like "just do bouldering bro" as that's missing a lot of the context and variables that relationships are built on. You should choose activities based on what you most enjoy to do, not based on which others tell you leads to make relationships.
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> American Legion, or Elks, or Masons, or Knights of columbus ... Those all still exist, right? Or did they die off with the WWII generation?
They still exist where I am, and are desperate for members, because their memberships tend to have an average age probably over 60. Some new blood could really invigorate them, but they have trouble finding any. I sometimes wonder how my grandparents' generation, who were generally hard-working farmers and tradesmen, and who raised large families relative to today, found the time to maintain all those groups along wi…
If they really want new members, they need to self-reflect on antiquated requirements that might turn off younger people from joining their organization.
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I can disagree with this take. For one, bouldering is not great if you have a fear of heights or maybe some mobility issues due to a previous injury. It's then a massively painful and risky chore and not a pleasurable activity but requires you to be at 100% health physically and mentally in order to do anything beyond kiddy walls. Otherwise you can fall and injure yourself pretty badly. Granted, that's mostly on you,…
It has a built-in gating function. People who are out-of-shape or with injuries will opt-out. Bouldering favors slim people. On the other hand, I think gating functions are necessary to build community. Often gating-functions are accomplished with wealth (gated community, country club), but its more interesting when its some other function. Maybe good idea for a meetup might be to solve some tech challenge, idk. Solv…
Of course, obviously, 100% agree. But then why is there so much debate in this topic that "men's only social/recreational spaces" are somehow discriminatory? We humans segregate ourselves based on a lot of shared things all the time since childhood.
>Bouldering favors slim people.
You're missing my point. The point I was making is that where I live, what I noticed, is that people who go to perform solitary sports like bouldering, tend to do said activity for the workout itself, not to meet new people or socialize with strangers.
They go there alone or with their group, they boulder alone or together, then they go home, not reciprocate much to chit-chat of others since that's not what they came for. You can pick any other such sport, likes fitness studios/gym, the result will be the same, people go there to lift weights, then go home, any addition chit-chat is more of an annoying interruption from their workout. Sure, people here are polite and they'll answer your questions on technique or to spot you, but they won't open up to strangers and start to befriend you just because you engaged them in some conversation. Social etiquette differs heavily between cultures. Some are more isolationist towards strangers and value personal space, some are more open.
You have better chances in meeting people in socializing at teams sports like football, volleyball, martial arts, etc because the sport itself demands it. Or just to events where socializing is the main activity like concerts, pub quizzes, etc. but solitary sports like bouldering are pretty bad for that unless the bouldering gym is full of posers who only go there seeking to socialize instead of work out (there are some of those in every gym, you see them spend most of the time scrolling on their phone or taking selfies for Instagram stories instead of working out).