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Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

nytimes.com

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Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#581

Post by aziaziazi »

w0m wrote: post #522
vidarh wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because my experience is that I don't find the food tempting, and so it feels pointless to spend time considering it.

> I don't find the food tempting One thing I realized a number of years ago is that my childhood instilled biases in me. A Few Examples: Sushi/Raw Fish/ethnic/spicy food == Bad Apple Products == For Suckers Ford == Found On Road Dead (bowtie life) AMD >>> Evil Netburst Intel empire. When I realized just how irrational I was on soo many subjects (I had never seen sushi or really any ethnic food until I was at my first…

> Anytime I've ever considered something pointless to consider - it's been a trigger to consider it.

This is a great motto, probably a root of self-actualisation path. It has been one of my value too but its too easy to forget, thanks for the reminder.

As you talk about barbecue and you like experiences, have you tried Tempeh [0] ? It's off the radar in some parts of the world but a daily staple in others. God for at marinade of your choice for the first time (not raw) or crumble it in a sauce you already know. That stuff is really surprising at first (like... cheese maybe?) but it's really an interesting ingredient. If you can't find it in your "health food store" you may google it for a almost-local seller that ship, for exemple [1] in UK.

[0] http://tempeh.info [1] https://www.temptmetempeh.co.uk/

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#582

Post by zzbzq »

saalweachter wrote: post #461
virtualritz wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

It's not the only reason, but in general in American history, "why is this weird thing this weird way?" is usually answered in part by "racism". Avoiding public transit has historically been one way affluent white people avoided contact with poor people in general and black people specifically; underfunding or shutting down public transit in turn disproportionately hurts those populations. Again, not the only explana…

I claim it's normal to hate public transport. Online, there are some loudmouthed public transport enthusiasts. To them, everyone who isn't doing public transport is a racist, boomer, redneck, luddite, and whatever aspersion you've got.

The real reason America has so many cars is people like cars better, and America developed in a time where people were rich enough to make it happen. People don't like public transport. I asked someone who grew up in another country, in a huge city with only public transport--and reputedly good, clean public transport at that--what they think of public transport, and they said it's gross and for poor people. (It wasn't a code for racism, their country was ethnically monotone.)

People like that don't visit threads like this though. You just get this echo chamber of young, childless, cosmopolitans who only care about a certain kind of efficiency in transport.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#583

Post by macNchz »

paddy_m wrote: post #541
b112 wrote: post #463

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yet your example purposefully sabotages cars by blocking streets to cars, and by not having city planners enforce enough parking spots for cars. The system can prioritize either method of travel. It's no surprise that when this happens, one is faster than the other.

You can never build enough parking spots if the cost of parking is $0. Optimally managed parking charges variably so that there is always about 10% of spaces free in a block. The entitlement of drivers to think they have a right to park a metal box wherever they want for free in the middle of the most expensive real estate in the world is staggering.

As an anecdote about any amount of parking winds up being used if it's free: there's a guy a block over from where I live in dense, transit-connected Brooklyn who has, at any given moment, at least 6 cars parked on the street, that he tinkers with and seems to occasionally buy and sell. The houses on that block sell for around $3-4 million these days, but the parking is free.

The neighborhood is also quite clearly full of cars that basically never get used—given there's no cost to store them, the owners save them for an occasional trip and in the meantime they accumulate snow/leaves/pollen etc the rest of the year, in proportion to how long they sit without being used.

The dysfunction of this system is particularly aggravating when you have an actual need to park nearby your home, e.g. if you're loading/unloading heavy things, and there's never any space. I would love if every block had temporary loading zones, but people freak out about the idea because it requires taking away some free parking.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#584

Post by etblg »

Larrikin wrote: post #252
neves wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best decision would be to completely forbid individual transport. Now the common space dedicated to streets is for who can pay extra. Forbid individual transport and create some parks and pedestrian streets.

If I live in a NYC like this how do I visit my friends in Philadelphia? What if they live in Towson MD? Now what if they live in the suburbs? How would I visit anybody in the country side anywhere? What if I want to buy in bulk at Costco? What if I just want to buy anything I can't carry on the subway? I have spent over a decade without owning a car in multiple cities. It's definitely possible but I've been fortunate…

Funnily enough there is a Costco in NYC, in Astoria (Queens) decently close to Manhattan. You can take the ferry there from Manhattan, or the subway, or busses, or bike there even, or heck just take an uber if you bought a lot of stuff.

Philadelphia is also an odd choice to bring up since there's a train from the center of Manhattan to Philly, and it's even a common commute for people to go back and forth.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#585

Post by kjkjadksj »

mplanchard wrote: post #183
jmclnx wrote: post #8

Seems to be working fine, I know the large city about 60 miles from me looked at this, and I am all for it. But its mass transit is a awful mess, at times walking is faster that taking a subway. I wish they would start this, but its politics is such a mess nothing really gets done there. New Ideas there gets implemented far slower than then ideas in Roman Catholic Church.

Transit always seems to be kind of a chicken and egg problem. You can’t have good transit unless you have good ridership, and you can’t have good ridership if you don’t have good transit. Everywhere I know of in the US with decent transit already had it before the culture of car dominance really took hold, so it was already good enough to maintain sufficient ridership to stay good. Does anyone know of anywhere that m…

LA. The rail system is about 25 years old and is pretty heavily used. Helps that some of it parallels some of the busiest bus corridors in the continent (vermont ave).

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#586

Post by skort »

shipscode wrote: post #526

The cool thing about congestion pricing is that you can still keep a car in Manhattan for free as long as you don’t leave the congestion zone. Keeping a car in Manhattan is the closest thing to having superpowers most will ever experience - and I’m sure with congestion pricing the equation is even better.

What exactly is the superpower here? Having a large chunk of steel you need to micro manage the location of, or pay up the nose to have a dedicated space for?

Have you ever ridden a bike? Taken the subway? Heck, you can just use a taxi to get around. Why would you want to deal with having a car in somewhere like Manhattan? Do you hate your fellow citizens so much you need to be constantly insulated from society?

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#589

Post by yodsanklai »

ben7799 wrote: post #566

Car speed in the zone.. that graph is really telling, showing that in NYC cars never really travel faster than even the slowest bicyclist, and slower than a modest runner. That alone tells you this is the right path. All that infrastructure and work for cars to not actually allow anyone to travel fast. 9mph is very very slow even for the weakest/most timid cyclist.

Cars are slow but you're less likely to get mugged (unlike pedestrians) or hit by cars (unlike cyclists). Also, bikes get stolen. These things happen rarely, but in the long run, the risk isn't negligible.

I avoid cars as much as I can and commute by bike in my European city. I used to live in NYC: I've been mugged there, and I've seen cyclists injured by cars. I don't want to cycle there and I do take cabs in the evenings or nights.

TLDR; speed isn't the only factor

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#590

Post by skort »

vagab0nd wrote: post #395

When can we have real-time price auctions for public roads?

We already do. It’s called the value of your time. If there’s too much traffic, chose another route. We don’t need more tech shit trying to improve mobility when the solution is clear- fewer cars, more mass transit (and not hyperloop crap)
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