Earlier quoted context omitted.
Unlike a cartel, you're not required to be an AMA member in order to practice medicine. It's completely voluntary and many doctors never join.
Cartels are usually voluntary.
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America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
581–590 of 660 posts
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#582Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. This was already addressed in the original post. Why write in this "spelling it out for you" style when they already addressed it? > Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other side. This is really reductive. There are multiple reasons: - very stable employment - very prest…
> This was already addressed in the original post. Why write in this "spelling it out for you" style when they already addressed it? The supply of labor for a given job is related to the market price of the job. This is literally ECON 101.
In most fields of study, you eventually learn that the information from 101 classes are broad oversimplifications at best. I would be surprised if economics was an exception
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#583Earlier quoted context omitted.
The reason there are so many people worth $1b instead of a poor $100m is because of the tax cuts diverting money from crucial jobs.
Waiting for the first trillionaire, that's when all billionaires will unanimously say "we have enough, let's start paying people more".
In the 1880s, Vanderbilt was worth $230m, or $7b today
1910s Rockerfeller peaked at nearly $1b. That's $33b today, or chump change. He, like Gates after him, gave away a lot of wealth.
Come 1995, Bill Gates took the mantle with a net worth of $15b, or $31b today.
So from 1910 to 1995 there was very little inflation in the super rich.
By 2000 Gates reached $60b ($110b). By 2010 he'd dropped to $56b ($81b today), still nearly 3 times richer than Rockerfeller
By 2015 he'd recovered to $105b in today's money, despite giving away lots of money.
In 2018 Bezos took over with $140b, a 40% real-terms increase on the "richest person" in just 3 years.
2022 Musk took over with $236b, but lost out to Arnault in 2024 when Musk was worth a mere $210b, but today he's nearly doubled his wealth. Maybe Musk is a special case due to the excessive corruption, but Bezos has increased 30% in 12 months.
in the last 30 years, the inflation rate of super-rich-wealth has increased on average 10% a year even ignoring the Musk outlier. Inflation meanwhile was 2.5%
At those rates, in the next 30 years the super-rich will be worth $4.2 trillion, but someone more normal with a net worth of $1m will be worth $2m.
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#584Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…
There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do. The notion that if you just pay enough, people who are otherwise qualified will do anything, is amazingly reductive. It's a super US-centric view, and not surprisingly, it does not have an amazing history of working out (especially compared to other mechanisms). Given the people in question have good other options, why would they do this,…
I'm from the US, and the ATC problem is in the US, so a US-centric view is completely in play.
Plenty of people in the US have finical goals, and providing them a means to more quickly reach their goals will motivate them. Will you convince everyone to apply to a job with more pay? No, but you really just need to convince a few more qualified people.
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#585Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…
More money would definitely help.
Becoming a doctor is a long, expensive and arduous process in the US, with a very narrow funnel (much too narrow but that's another topic). But if you make it through residency, you're mostly guaranteed to make good money for the rest of your life (if you don't screw up, etc.)
Start by tripling the ATC salary and see what happens.
Then, reduce ATC hours to reduce stress and errors. That means hiring more people (==higher incentives).
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#586Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…
Yeah, I think this is one of the most difficult and demanding job in the world.
But my instinct tells me some filters happen too early. Don't know about the US but in France for example you need to be an engineer to become an air controller; and to be an engineer you need to go to prep school; and to go to prep school you need to have majored in physics in high school (not just math).
Which means that, if you choose not to take physics in 11th grade when you're 16, that's it: you will never be an air controller in France, whatever your other motivations or qualities.
But it would seem some personal qualities, like the ability to switch context easily, be resistant to stress (or even enjoying it), etc. should be more relevant to this job than just having studied physics in high school.
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#587Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…
There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do. The notion that if you just pay enough, people who are otherwise qualified will do anything, is amazingly reductive. It's a super US-centric view, and not surprisingly, it does not have an amazing history of working out (especially compared to other mechanisms). Given the people in question have good other options, why would they do this,…
> In fact – plenty of [smart] people will take pay cuts for better qualify of life.
Yep, I dropped to a 4-day week prorated (so a 20% cut, a little less if you consider that changed my position with respect to tax boundaries, for 20% less work) a while back, to deal with family health issues and my own burn-out. As things are fixing up I'm considering keeping to this routine despite the fact the extra money would be useful – the extra time is _very_ nice too.
[Not sure how far into “smart” territory I'd be considered though :)]
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#588Earlier quoted context omitted.
> This was already addressed in the original post. Why write in this "spelling it out for you" style when they already addressed it? The supply of labor for a given job is related to the market price of the job. This is literally ECON 101.
It's still a simplistic view. If you increase salaries the pay has to come from somewhere. Does that mean making flights more expensive? Or raising taxes? Either way it's not as simple as "just increase salaries, dummy".
Making flights more expensive would also address the ATC shortage, by reducing workload. Good idea.
(Econ 101 again: increased price -> reduced demand, i. e. fewer flights.)
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#589Earlier quoted context omitted.
I generally agree with your sentiment for improving education, but I don't think the limiting factor for ATCs has to do with it, but with innate qualities in individuals. You can see the list of criteria here: https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications
I think most people underestimate the amount of "innate qualities" from patience to creativity etc. that actually are influenced by education, parenting, etc. rather than being defined at birth by genetics. Education isn't just about changing the quantity of knowledge people have learned - a country with good free education, along with other things like mental health support, good parenting resources/education/suppor…
A quick google suggests that only 35% of US adults have 20/20 vision (although I guess it might be higher if you restrict to the population of the age required) which is one of the requirements so that by itself limits the pool of applicants significantly regardless of education, parenting etc?
Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers
#590Earlier quoted context omitted.
Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…
There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do. The notion that if you just pay enough, people who are otherwise qualified will do anything, is amazingly reductive. It's a super US-centric view, and not surprisingly, it does not have an amazing history of working out (especially compared to other mechanisms). Given the people in question have good other options, why would they do this,…
> There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do.
This is true for individuals.
With a sample size large enough, the probability that no one will be up for it given the increased pay, is extremely low, tending to zero.