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Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

reuters.com

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Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#581

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To this day we still have no idea how many of those 1200 people were killed by Hamas and how many were killed by the IDF under the Hannibal Directive. There likely are thousands upon thousands of hours of footage from October 7th from private/personal security cameras and also from the camera equipment on the attack helicopters and tanks. Yet, despite all the footage that likely exists, a total of 46 minutes has been…

And all the hostages are really just kept inside secret IDF facilities, right? Did some die due you friendly fire? Yes, we know that, but your take is pretty unhinged.

Strawman much?

Taking hostages has practical benefits. Indiscriminate killing of folks that don't present a threat isn't practical.

Every single one of those combatants that left the fence that day had a limited amount of ammunition on them. Practically speaking, most US soldiers will patrol with about 7 magazines with 30 rounds in each magazine, plus two pistol magazines. Add another magazine in each firearm. A typical double stack magazine will be about 17 rounds, so we're talking about less than 300 rounds for a full load-out.

In the case of Hamas, they are using imprecise arms like AK-47s. They likely have no optics like red dots or scopes and are just using iron sights. Match grade AK-47s probably have 2 to 4 MOA of accuracy under ideal conditions with modern optics and meticulously handloaded ammunition using modern bullets.

Between poor accuracy and the need to occasionally lay down suppressive fire, 300 rounds isn't going to get you very far.

Unlike US warfighters, the Hamas warfighters also have no ability to call in close air support or be re-supplied. If you have a limited number of rounds and the only potential for "re-supply" comes from enemy combatants, the one thing you don't do is waste ammo on folks that aren't a threat like women, children, elderly. You prioritize fighting age men and in the case of the IDF, fighting age women as well.

RPGs are especially valuable and limited in supply and would likely be reserved for tanks, attack helicopters and vehicles that present threat. It's highly unlikely a reasonably trained fighting force with limited ammunition and explosives would waste them on non-threats. Not saying it didn't happen with any of those warfighters, but the majority would be more disciplined than that, especially coming from an environment plagued by scarcity. US soldiers pretty much have unlimited access to ammo and support and they aren't wasteful with ammo when there isn't a prospect of prompt resupply.

Honestly, I don't know how someone can see this take as unhinged unless they've been largely brainwashed into accept the narratives spun after October 7th.

When someone or some entity intentionally deceives you (which happened a lot with respect to October 7th. e.g. 40 beheaded babies), the only practical response is to assume maximum deceit so they are forced to present evidence to actually support their testimony about what they say happened.

No critical thinking person should accept the official Israeli government's accounting of what happened on October 7th at this point. “Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me”

Anyways, the truth about what actually happened that day is far more knowable than we currently know. All that is needed is transparency. Release everything.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#582

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal No, it isn’t. Very few revolutions ( i.e power inversions) have succeeded by indiscriminately killing the dominant side’s civilians. That frequency, moreover, goes down over time.

yes it is. before oct7 there was a somewhat broad consensus that Hamas are bad and are terrorists. nowadays however, Hamas are hailed as resistance and freedom fighters. Only jewish hasbara still calls them terrorists, everyone else is sympathetic to Hamas, even Donald Trump, given his zionist position

> still calls them terrorists

I’m sure that if you asked most people in Europe or the US they’d would agree. I’d bet on average more strongly than before the war.

I mean Israel is deeply flawed, oppressed and is committing war crimes. Can disagree about that.

Hamas on the other hand is objectively evil and should be destroyed. Arguing about what cost exactly is worth paying for that is reasonable disagreeing with the premise itself is wrong and immoral.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#583
post #545

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

> Conservative figures show that more than 6,000 women and 11,000 children were killed in Gaza by the Israeli military over the last 12 months. https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/more-women-and-child... Edit: also that's not war, thats war crimes

[flagged]

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#584

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the difference between terrorists and freedom fighters is temporal. Yesterday they were called terrorists by the mainstream, tomorrow when they win they will be hailed as heroes and freedom fighters. the zionists were also called terrorists by the UK in the beginning, especially when they bombed king david hotel

Except Zionists are capable of establishing and running a democratic state (however flawed according to some it might be). It would be silly to pretend that’s even remotely close to being an option for Hamas. For starters modern Islamic fundamentalism is inherently incompatible with democracy (amongst other reasons). Expecting that organizations like Hamas could somehow magically change for the better is pure madness…

Zionists are perfectly capable of subverting and terrorizing their way and murdering those who oppose them.

you know it was radical jewish terrorist who murdered yitzhak rabin, who tried to make peace with palestinians?

it was mossad, who helped finance and support Hamas, so that moderate PLO could never make progress on unified palestinian state?

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#586
post #472

How many square kilometers of land does Israel gain this time?

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

I don't think the Palestinians expelled from the West Bank by Israeli settlers agree with that

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#587
post #216

So I suppose it's just back to the status quo? What has really changed that will make a difference in 2-3 years from now? Israel has sowed a whole fresh generation of "I will sacrifice everything to wipe Israel" Palestinian youth.

Gaza is completely unlivable and more Palestinians can be "persuaded" to move abroad now that they literally have no infrastructure to survive.

No country wants them.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#588
post #472

How many square kilometers of land does Israel gain this time?

You are aware, I hope, that Israel pulled back from Gaza completely in 2005, and from Sinai in 1980? It’s been growing smaller since 1973 (and never technically annexed any area it did temporarily take in a war)

That's not correct. Here is a map of how the West Bank settlements have grown over the years, from 1967 until 2024: https://apnews.com/a-look-at-how-settlements-have-grown-in-t...

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#589

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going to pretend that Jews haven’t lived there for thousands and thousands of years, before the Arabs arrived?

Arab is not a race. Most Arabs never arrived from anywhere, they were locals who adopted (often violently, sometimes not) large parts of Arab culture for long enough to consider themselves Arabs. The Arabians never had the resources or population to engage in settler colonialism you are thinking of. Even if they wanted to (and perhaps they did), they just couldn't go around replacing anyone. So from the start the con…

This is true of most old empires. Romans, Persians, Arabs, Mongols, early Ottomans generally don't setttle areas they conquer. They don't engage in industrial extraction either. They form a ruling class and collect taxes. Any cultural influence that have was because of longevity rather than any interest in forced conversion. People project their impressions of more modern empires to pre-industrial ones that didn't have the same aspirations or even institutions to accomplish those aspirations.

Re: Israel, Hamas reach ceasefire deal to end 15 months of war in Gaza

#590
post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>IDF or Likud The IDF and Likud does not have a policy of attacking civilians to achieve political or war goals. They likely have some deranged and radicalized commanders who do this anyway, but it's not the organizational policy.

The IDF and Likud literally just killed orders of magnitude more civilians than Hamas in Gaza, the West Bank, Lebanon, Syria and Yemen.

If some really weak person kept trying to kill you by punching you in the face would you hold your own punch back to only hurt them the same amount or would you absolutely deck them?
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