GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house • Hacker News Board

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#581

Post by jessriedel » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 5:47 PM UTC

mvkel wrote: post #550

standardUser wrote: post #19

Waymo needs competition. Who else is even close to being able to provide it? I'd hate to think Tesla is next in line because they haven't even started a commercial pilot program yet.

Have you ridden in a waymo? I've found it to be about 95% as good as FSD, and FSD goes anywhere. I've been very puzzled at people treating FSD as non-existent when it's very reliably good.

I’ve taken a few dozen Waymo rides, but it doesn’t matger because this is not something you can really test as a person. The entire issue is whether you have, say, 7 or 9 nines of reliability (e.g., 10x or 0.1x times more dangerous than a human), and you can’t extrapolate that from how smooth it feels or whatever. FSD doesn’t have that reliability, which is why they don’t let you sleep.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#582

Post by spankalee » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 5:49 PM UTC

ethagknight wrote: post #579

Workaccount2 wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, super cruise only works on pre-approved roads/road sections, whereas FSD works just about anywhere. When I last checked my commute to work, the main highway I take becomes unsupported half way to work, despite it being the same bland typical highway layout. I really don't want to buy a Tesla, but from what I can tell, nobody has anything close to what FSD offers.

SuperCruise and FSD are not comparable. SuperCruise does what it claims to do, keep it up the middle on listed corridors. Most highways and interstates are eligible. I love both systems. FSD is truly almost there for unsupervised, point to point driving. People want to virtue signal and complain about Tesla but it is an amazing piece of hardware being mass produced today. My car is 3 years old.

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Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#583

Post by travisporter » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 5:50 PM UTC

maerF0x0 wrote: post #561

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #395

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you look at the lifecycle analysis of ICE cars, burning the fuel is the major contributor. So if you drive an average amount with those cars you're not saving the planet by continuing to drive them. In a well functioning system you'd be selling them on to people who drive very little and are old and set in their ways and replacing them with an EV.

In the book Heat Monboit argues the stats show that when someone "greens" their consumption they also increase it. For example switching to "green" energy meant people stopped thinking about conserving. In the specific case of electric vehicles (and many plug in hybrids) luckily they're such an immense improvement that my guess is that they still have a net benefit. But far from the simple efficiency math, and more l…

Good point. I think the hopeful next step would be looking at efficiency of EVs, miles per kWh (of course not counting public transport)

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#584

Post by travisporter » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 5:51 PM UTC

ethagknight wrote: post #579

Workaccount2 wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From my understanding, super cruise only works on pre-approved roads/road sections, whereas FSD works just about anywhere. When I last checked my commute to work, the main highway I take becomes unsupported half way to work, despite it being the same bland typical highway layout. I really don't want to buy a Tesla, but from what I can tell, nobody has anything close to what FSD offers.

SuperCruise and FSD are not comparable. SuperCruise does what it claims to do, keep it up the middle on listed corridors. Most highways and interstates are eligible. I love both systems. FSD is truly almost there for unsupervised, point to point driving. People want to virtue signal and complain about Tesla but it is an amazing piece of hardware being mass produced today. My car is 3 years old.

Any thoughts on OpenPilot? I’ve been hearing good things but would be cool to do a comparison.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#585

Post by adrr » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 5:53 PM UTC

delabay wrote: post #292

adrr wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hit it on the nail, the driver didn't have to intervene but they had to be ready to take over at any time. If FSD could safely operate where you had 10 seconds to take over for level 3, why doesn't Tesla go get it certified for L3 driving. FSD isn't even approved for being a drivers aid(hands off, eyes on) in EU and China because Tesla has not demonstrated that it is safe. Even Blue cruise is approved in EU for c…

Imo Mercedes scored a point with their narrow application of L3 driving, Tesla is playing to win the game.

Are they? they haven't start certification for self driving any market? It seems FSD is more of way to pump the stock. Mercedes is testing their same cars for L4(point to point) in china.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#586

Post by misiti3780 » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 6:04 PM UTC

spankalee wrote: post #582

ethagknight wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SuperCruise and FSD are not comparable. SuperCruise does what it claims to do, keep it up the middle on listed corridors. Most highways and interstates are eligible. I love both systems. FSD is truly almost there for unsupervised, point to point driving. People want to virtue signal and complain about Tesla but it is an amazing piece of hardware being mass produced today. My car is 3 years old.

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a legitimate stance held by idiots* --- if politics consumes your life that much, you should seek help

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#587

Post by rasz » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 6:07 PM UTC

yard2010 wrote: post #401

> After spending more than $10 billion on its robotaxi unit, General Motors is abandoning its Cruise driverless ride-hailing service. Where is the money? I don't mean to be as snarky as Cruise founder, but how can you burn that amount of money and not show results?

A lot of it probably burned on Cloud GPU/Compute.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#588

Post by vel0city » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 6:09 PM UTC

notdonspaulding wrote: post #574

tialaramex wrote: post #449

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In particular, grid decarbonisation means that distance to break even moves after the car is manufactured. If you live somewhere that mostly burns coal to make electricity, your break even is determined based on the higher efficiency of electric motors and of the (energy efficient but filthy) big stack coal generators compared to the relatively clean but inefficient gasoline ICE. But if they start building wind turbi…

> If you live somewhere that mostly burns coal to make electricity, Which is almost everywhere in the world. Fossil fuels make up around 80% of energy production. > But if they start building wind turbines and solar farms, because those are just cheaper and easier - If they were "just cheaper and easier" they wouldn't need huge clean energy investments and subsidies. I love solar, but don't let anyone sell you on the…

> don't let anyone sell you on the fiction that your EV is avoiding fossil fuels at any time in the near future unless you have installed enough solar on your personal residence to charge your car every day.

Let's say doing things one way uses 10 units of something, and doing something another way then uses 5 units of that same something. Didn't you then avoid using 5 units of that thing?

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#589

Post by vel0city » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 6:10 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #534

infecto wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be comparing apples to oranges, you want apples to apples. Everyone replaces their car at some point. If you are comparing a new EV, its best to compare its impact compared to a new ICE. We all know its probably best in most cases to keep any vehicle, even one that is inefficient, on the road for its useful life.

> We all know its probably best in most cases to keep any vehicle, even one that is inefficient, on the road for its useful life. I didn’t know this until this thread. And I feel like I’ve heard people say things like they are going to improve the environment by ditching their current car for an EV, not because they’re planning on getting rid of their car anyways.

> ditching their current car

Ditching their current car isn't setting their old car on fire. It's still in the overall fleet of cars.

Re: GM exits robotaxi market, will bring Cruise operations in house

#590

Post by sgerenser » Wed, Dec 11, 2024, 6:12 PM UTC

spankalee wrote: post #582

ethagknight wrote: post #579

Earlier quoted context omitted.

SuperCruise and FSD are not comparable. SuperCruise does what it claims to do, keep it up the middle on listed corridors. Most highways and interstates are eligible. I love both systems. FSD is truly almost there for unsupervised, point to point driving. People want to virtue signal and complain about Tesla but it is an amazing piece of hardware being mass produced today. My car is 3 years old.

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Indeed, and I've held an anti-Elon position since well before he bought Twitter and went all MAGA. Personally, I don't want to support someone who continuously lies and breaks securities laws with impunity. The MAGA stuff is just icing on the cake.