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MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

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Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#581

Post by joshuaissac »

manuelabeledo wrote: post #234
pjmlp wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They surely do, one of the reasons why Windows Phone failed to gain adoption was how Google blocked access to their apps from Windows Phone.

But they didn’t. There were PWAs of the most popular Google products that worked just fine in Windows Phone. Microsoft didn’t do the same with theirs. Outlook didn’t get an Android version until late 2015, Edge took a few years to arrive, and Bing Maps never made it.

> There were PWAs of the most popular Google products that worked just fine in Windows Phone.

No, there weren't. PWAs did not even exist at the time. User experience was severely degraded when browsing Google properties with Windows Phone IE.

Google also barred Microsoft from releasing a native YouTube app for Windows Phone, insisting that it must be done with HTML5 instead, even though Google's own YouTube apps for Android and iOS were native.

> Microsoft didn’t do the same with theirs. Outlook didn’t get an Android version until late 2015, Edge took a few years to arrive, and Bing Maps never made it.

Bing Maps works fine on Android as a PWA. It does not get degraded if I use Chrome. So yeah, Microsoft didn't do the same with theirs.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#584

Post by bobthepanda »

tempodox wrote: post #564
happytiger wrote: post #558

You can't embrace open source, stand for freedom on the Internet, and simultaneously engage in dark patterns like this without destroying user trust. And trust with users is the currency of the 21st century as much as data is the new oil. Microsoft needs to get their brand straight and decide, once and for all, what they stand for. There was this incredible move towards open source, and embracing the modern web, and…

Obviously their dark patterns are not sufficient to drive away enough users and this has been the case for decades. Nothing new to see here, it's the same old Microsoft of yore.

I mean with desktop OS systems you've got

* macs, which cost an arm and a leg and aren't necessarily better if you've got an axe to grind against corporations with dark patterns

* chromebooks, where you have even less choice over the matter

* various flavors of Linux, which have never quite gotten to 'grandma uses it and it just works with the apps she likes'

Interestingly SteamOS is quite nice, but will it be something outside of gaming on a Steam Deck?

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#585

Post by kitsunesoba »

atraac wrote: post #542
CrimsonRain wrote: post #530

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yet, 20% of times, apple loads their own keyboard instead of my default GBoard :)

This is most likely due to developers of certain apps/inputs and not iOS/Apple themselves, there is a simple line of code to do this and from what I've noticed some overly-secure-wannabe-apps force system keyboard for certain inputs.

Yes, developers can disable third party keyboards throughout their entire app with an application delegate method[0], and when secureTextEntry[1] is enabled on UITextField the system automatically disables third party keyboards on both that text field as well as any immediately adjacent text field (likely for username+password combos).

The idea is that because keyboards can connect to the internet (with user permission), there's potential for data theft. It may also be possible to exfiltrate data from a keyboard extension by saving the data to an app container shared by the host app, which the host app can then send out with its network access.

Devs who don't know how or care to properly accommodate the variable height of third-party keyboards may use the app-wide opt-out to eliminate bugs relating to that, though I haven't personally encountered this.

[0]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uiapplicatio... [1]: https://developer.apple.com/documentation/uikit/uitextinputt...

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#586

Post by ghostly_s »

happytiger wrote: post #558

You can't embrace open source, stand for freedom on the Internet, and simultaneously engage in dark patterns like this without destroying user trust. And trust with users is the currency of the 21st century as much as data is the new oil. Microsoft needs to get their brand straight and decide, once and for all, what they stand for. There was this incredible move towards open source, and embracing the modern web, and…

Many of us kept our trust rating for MS right around zero despite their "embrace of open source"; it seems we were correct in recognizing it as nothing more than a recognition of market realities packaged up as a marketing ploy.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#587

Post by beachy »

crumpled wrote: post #579

I only occasionally use Edge on a machine where I use Firefox because it has similar API support as Chrome. (I only need it for like one web site). I've never needed Edge on any machine where I have Chrome, but I'm not installing chrome on any new system. M$FT wants me to install a dev build of Edge if I want to try Bing chat on Linux? Dream on. No Google or Microsoft applications on my Linux machine, thanks.

Funny, I had the same experience the other day as I tried to get me my first taste of some AI.

Knew nothing so thought I'd start with Bing chat. Immediately blocked by the need to run an MS browser on my fedora machine, so Bing chat lost me instantly likely forever.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#588

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

wolpoli wrote: post #574
lcnPylGDnU4H9OF wrote: post #559

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, I was a little hesitant to suggest that this was caused by Microsoft given that. I actually agree that this problem is caused by user agent sniffing. I could see someone arguing the other way, though. Ultimately, I think it's still on-topic because, at any point, any of these browser vendors (admittedly, not limited to Microsoft) could have started to work with webmasters for a standard of "feature claims" inst…

Switching to a system of "user agent claims" have been up to any one of the browsers, when they had a majority of marketshare, to push through. Mosaic/Netscape/IE all had a chance in the Web 1.0 world, unfortunately, none of them did.

I agree with that too, and admitted to such in my previous comment. Still, being the first practitioner of this comes with a certain responsibility for its proliferation. It's not a sole responsibility to your point, but it is primary in a way. It's a lot easier for others to decide to copy what someone else did than to decide to be the first to do it.

To the same point, Google is arguably the reason it persists today given the popularity of Chrome. Just as Microsoft is arguably the reason it started. (I suppose I could have been more careful in the phrasing of my initial comment since "is so useless" could imply both but I don't think it's particularly egregious.)

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#589

Post by 908B64B197 »

buran77 wrote: post #140
AraceliHarker wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Simply put, people don't love Edge as much as they love Chrome. The browser bundled with Windows 11 is naturally Edge, but users who use Chrome install Chrome of their own volition, so forcing them to open links in Edge is extremely annoying.

I doubt "love" for the software is involved here. I think many users believe Chrome is "the internet" just like they used to believe the Google search page was the internet, or Internet Explorer before that. This impression of Chrome was built on the fact that it's a solid browser but was enforced by Google with the same underhanded practices they applied for years. My Android phone came with Chrome which I can't uni…

There's also the fact that as soon as you touch anything by Google you'll get nagged with adds and pop-up suggesting installing Chrome.

Some freeware also contained an (enabled by default!) option to install Chrome and make it the default browser. CCleaner was guilty of it if I recall correctly.

Re: MSFT is forcing Outlook and Teams to open links in Edge and IT admins are angry

#590

Post by mistrial9 »

sneak wrote: post #561
happytiger wrote: post #558

You can't embrace open source, stand for freedom on the Internet, and simultaneously engage in dark patterns like this without destroying user trust. And trust with users is the currency of the 21st century as much as data is the new oil. Microsoft needs to get their brand straight and decide, once and for all, what they stand for. There was this incredible move towards open source, and embracing the modern web, and…

A proprietary software company never makes a "move toward open source". Microsoft released some things with source simply to sell more proprietary software that does not respect user freedoms. Open source and free software is a philosophy and ideology. Microsoft is incompatible with it no matter what licenses they use. Microsoft never embraced open source. You can't claim that until and unless Windows is released wit…

MSFT is indeed embracing open source -- prediction -- a polluted and key-controlled Debian will be inside the next OS, filled with Azure management python packages and adware. Second, Canonical as indentured servent, will deliver anything that Redmond requests as snapd, with phone-home welded ON and more expiring keys.

You are not the customer here. You are a cog in an industrial machine. It is the executive management that has power, and you will know it every day. MSFT will sell your management the tools you are required to use every day.

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