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iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

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Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#581

Post by martinald »

76SlashDolphin wrote: post #350
vore wrote: post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.

But you would need to somehow get in touch with said carrier. Granted, you could probably do that over WiFi but if my phone breaks when, say, I'm out camping I'm SoL.

In the UK most carriers also offer printed QR codes for the eSIM. These can be scanned more than once to activate it. So you can store that somewhere and scan it on another phone.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#582

Post by hnarn »

vore wrote: post #255
pmontra wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The last time I dropped my phone and broke its screen I took out the SIM and left the phone in a repair shop. I went home, put the SIM in an old phone. If the broken phone had an eSIM, would I been able to use the old one as a backup? Maybe by going to a shop and askig for a physical SIM. That would be slower and less convenient. A physical SIM fits in a Samsung A40 which is probably the smaller and lighter Android p…

If your old phone was also eSIM compatible, you can just download the eSIM from your carrier like you would if you moved to any other phone.

> you can just download the eSIM

If we disregard the fact that many older but still usable phones don’t support e-sim (which was the original point), what do you mean ”just” download the e-sim?

At least in my country, getting an e-sim is a pretty involved process which requires secure authentication, and specifically in my case that authentication would be gone with the now-broken phone if one didn’t have the foresight to have a backup (which many people do not).

If you have a physical sim, you can move it to almost any (unlocked) mobile phone in existence (at least in Europe) and at most you’ll need the PIN/PUK.

Of course, this goes the other way as well if you drop your phone in the ocean for example, provided you have alternate authentication and a compatible phone, e-sim will have you up and running again much faster.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#583

Post by afavour »

Terretta wrote: post #557
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

A non-app-store web app on iPhone has been able to be full screen since initial release of Home Screen web apps. When you launch from Home Screen, it gets the whole screen. See the Xbox Cloud Gaming "app" for instance, which is outside the App Store, just launch then "Add to Home Screen", close, and run from Home Screen. https://www.xbox.com/en-us/play As for what can be done with browsers, see the venerable iCab but…

To be clear you absolutely cannot run Xbox games in a web browser. The service you’re talking about is just streaming video from a remote Xbox to the phone.

You and the OP are both right about fullscreen. There is a web fullscreen API, which Apple does not support. However, PWAs strip out the browser UI so you’re effectively fullscreen. Though you can’t do anything about the status bar, nor can you lock screen orientation.

But more to the original point, none of this has anything to do with security. Apple disallowed a native Xbox streaming app because they demanded a cut of the revenue and MS wasn’t willing to give it.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#584

Post by threeseed »

heavyset_go wrote: post #452
PlutoIsAPlanet wrote: post #405

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And you cannot use a third party browser, since they forbid that (all are Safari based) I think this has turned out to be the current barrier in preventing Google from completing taking over the web standards space.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

> turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable

Until the issue is fixed and the goal posts are moved once again.

Because PWAs have been available in one form or another for 14 years.

And it's always because that the UX is terrible that makes them not viable not anything Apple has done.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#585

Post by palata »

matsemann wrote: post #444
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

If they want it, download the app then. Allow others to not download it and use a PWA if they'd like. Actually I believe you're wrong: if people actually preferred Apple's way of doing it, Apple would have no reason to restrict other ways. They restrict it because people prefer the other way, and that would harm Apple's profits.

Users don't choose what they use, they use what they must. I can't choose to use Signal if everybody uses WhatsApp. I can't choose a non-ElectronJS Slack client because it doesn't exist.

If PWA is cheaper to make, companies will go there. Whether or not it's better for the users. Companies want to make money, not help users.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#586

Post by WesolyKubeczek »

kiicia wrote: post #520
heavyset_go wrote: post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple's ban of all browsers but Safari turned out to be the main barrier preventing progressive web apps from being viable, deepening the duopoly power of themselves and Google, because Apple refuses to implement basic browser standards that are necessary for PWAs. And then when they do implement similar browser standards, they don't follow any web standards, they instead make their own proprietary bespoke web standa…

you seem to be completely sure that everyone loves and wants pwa newsflash: many users hate pwa, they prefer native apps

newsflash to your newsflash: most „native” apps are lazy wrappers around shitty webviews anyway.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#587

Post by palata »

sirsinsalot wrote: post #571
mnd999 wrote: post #442

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Users don’t want crappy PWAs, they want something that follows the platform UI conventions. It’s good that Apple care enough about about UX to actually enforce this.

OK, so let people choose. They'll consistently choose native apps and PWAs will become second class. It doesn't need Apple to white Knight on behalf of their poor, dim, uninformed users. Because they're not.

Except if mainstream proprietary apps go to PWA. Just like I'm forced to use those damn ElectronJS apps. I wouldn't if I had a choice.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#588

Post by stefan_ »

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #469
hurtuvac78 wrote: post #250

Apple being motivated by improving security are BS, and it pains me te see people in this forum falling for it or reapeating this. There is a great tool to increase security: the browser and its sandbox. You don't need to install anything fishy on your phone, and the sandbox rights coukd be sufficient for many apps. But as an example, Apple denies the full screen feature for websites and even PWA... only installed on…

> the browser and its sandbox. A lot of viruses (and jailbreaks on iOS amongst others) are distributed via this browser / sandbox; it's only secure in theory and it took decades to get to that point. Sure (before the Rust evangelists swoop in), part of that was due to using unsafe languages; part was due to extension frameworks that had too much power (ActiveX, which was even used to update your operating system, I c…

This is funny because by far the most impactful breaches of security on iOS phones have been due to the Apple components, like the messaging app that inexplicably is still written in ObjectiveC as it's ever been, or the image framework found to contain various bits of opensource code they never updated, never audited, or the various terrible magic "serialization" features.

This Apple native crud they force every app to use (up to the whole browser engine, like in the IE days!) is truly the ActiveX of our times. Only you can't even get rid of it.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#589

Post by threeseed »

heavyset_go wrote: post #544
SXX wrote: post #485

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For years Google been stamping "standards" one after another even though other browser vendors were against many of them and they end up being Chrome-only. No matter what Apple itself does Safari being major non-Chromium browser helps Firefox a lot just by existing and having huge marketshare.

How does Apple dragging their feet on implementing the Web Push notification standard, that is necessary for PWAs, in anyway help in that situation? Literally every browser except Safari implemented the the standard, and not out of some noble anti-Google crusade. PWAs threaten the App Store monopoly's moneyhose. How does Apple releasing proprietary web standards just for Safari, like Safari Push Notifications, help i…

Push notifications are now available in iOS.

And so I will be looking forward to the magical era of PWAs replacing all mobile applications because clearly push notifications was what was holding them back all these years.

Even though a tiny fraction of mobile apps use them but I guess we will ignore that.

Re: iOS 17 app sideloading might only be available in Europe

#590

Post by lxgr »

threeseed wrote: post #589
heavyset_go wrote: post #544

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How does Apple dragging their feet on implementing the Web Push notification standard, that is necessary for PWAs, in anyway help in that situation? Literally every browser except Safari implemented the the standard, and not out of some noble anti-Google crusade. PWAs threaten the App Store monopoly's moneyhose. How does Apple releasing proprietary web standards just for Safari, like Safari Push Notifications, help i…

Push notifications are now available in iOS. And so I will be looking forward to the magical era of PWAs replacing all mobile applications because clearly push notifications was what was holding them back all these years. Even though a tiny fraction of mobile apps use them but I guess we will ignore that.

Every single airline app on my phone is there only because of push notifications (which work more reliably than texts when traveling internationally with different SIMs). The same goes for most food delivery apps.
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