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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#581

Post by [deleted] »

fjabre wrote: post #575
dang wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not post flamewar comments to Hacker News, regardless of how wrong other people are, or how much smarter you are, or how wrong you feel they are, or how smart you feel you are. Flamewar hell is not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: actually, you've been breaking the site guidelines so egregiously that I've banned the account. It's n…

Dang you spend more time banning accounts than constructively participating on the site. Just look at your comment history. This goes against the spirit of HN. We value open discussion here. Your actions should be brought to PGs attention. It seems you are abusing your power as moderator. This is not in HN’s best interest. Just because you disagree with someone doesnt mean you should ban or silence them.

[deleted]

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#582

Post by dang »

fjabre wrote: post #575
dang wrote: post #569

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please do not post flamewar comments to Hacker News, regardless of how wrong other people are, or how much smarter you are, or how wrong you feel they are, or how smart you feel you are. Flamewar hell is not what this site is for, and it destroys what it is for. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: actually, you've been breaking the site guidelines so egregiously that I've banned the account. It's n…

Dang you spend more time banning accounts than constructively participating on the site. Just look at your comment history. This goes against the spirit of HN. We value open discussion here. Your actions should be brought to PGs attention. It seems you are abusing your power as moderator. This is not in HN’s best interest. Just because you disagree with someone doesnt mean you should ban or silence them.

If you look at my comments more closely you'll see that banning accounts is a small portion of what I do. Mostly I try to persuade and explain to users what kind of site we're trying to have here, what the site guidelines are, and how we apply them.

It always feels like the mods are against you (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor...), but you can't take that as evidence that we disagree with you. The people with opposite views to yours are just as sure that we're secretly agreeing with you and moderating the site to privilege your views. That's just how it goes.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#583

Post by dang »

ukj wrote: post #576
dang wrote: post #416

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't post flamewar comments like this. It just takes threads further into flamewar hell—exactly what we don't want here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html (We detached this subthread from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29758995 .)

Then how about you practice your own damn rules? This one in particular Please respond to the strongest plausible interpretation of what someone says, not a weaker one that's easier to criticize. Assume good faith. In the strongest possible interpretation (had you assumed good faith) my comment is NOT inflamatory. I am pointing out that pandemics are a PvE (Player vs Environment) game, not PvP (Player vs Player) game…

Interpretations can differ, obviously, but I wouldn't say that was a borderline call. Your comment was snarky and aggressive on a divisive topic. That's a flamewar comment.

There's an interesting phenomenon where, in responding to moderation comments, people often explain what they originally meant in a form that would have been much better to say in the first place. It seems to me you did that here:

> pandemics are a PvE (Player vs Environment) game, not PvP (Player vs Player) game.

That's an interesting observation which could have formed the nucleus of a thoughtful comment. However, you didn't post anything like that in the GP. The trouble is that you (I don't mean you personally, but all of us) have your meaning in your head, but the rest of us don't have access to that, so if it's to come across, you need to explain it explicitly. Making a snarky comment that somehow presupposes your meaning doesn't do this. That is, it does it for the person speaking (who has access to the implicit meaning) but for everyone else, only the snark comes across, not the argument. For best results, you should include the argument and drop the snark. That's what the site guidelines are trying to get at.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#584

Post by spurgu »

lenkite wrote: post #566
bell-cot wrote: post #480

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many people seem to expect "vaccinated" to mean "enjoy utter immunity to". Kinda like some World of EverDungeon video game, where having the Amulet of Foozaz makes you utterly immune to any & all poisons. Anti-vaxer's love to play up that meme. A better analogy would be the body armor that Marines wear in combat zones. No Marine is stupid enough to believe that wearing body armor will make him completely immune to bu…

Well, the definition of vaccine changed late last year after it was found that the Covid vaccinations did not prevent infections. Definition before late-2020: "a product that stimulates a person's immune system to produce immunity to a specific disease, thereby protecting against that disease", To "a preparation used to stimulate the body's immune response against a specific disease". Now, we are realising that the C…

Yup. And besides, it's been clear for a good while now that it boils down to personal protection and keeping hospital capacity at bay. Yet there is so much illogical fear of "antivaxxers/unvaccinated" in the vaccinated crowd.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#585

Post by Daishiman »

guilhas wrote: post #540
eli_gottlieb wrote: post #462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, the solution is to improve and update the vaccines.

And in the meantime not force anyone, since the vaccine is experimental, and the efficacy lower than previously thought

The efficacy for reducing disease severity is super high and it's what's keeping many jurisdictions from not getting hospitals stuffed with Omicron patients.

The vaccine isn't experimental, stop with that stupid trope. How many billions more patients do you want before you'll consider the known data definitive?

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#586

Post by dahart »

salawat wrote: post #373
atoav wrote: post #311

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slight change: There is no science if reasonable doubts aren't allowed. The thing with this pandemic is, that the time where you could have a reasonable doubt in the vaccines are over for a while now. We vaccinated half of earths population. If there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown. The more data we gather the clearer the picture becomes and the less reasonable certain doubts become. The t…

Myocarditis. I know several mothers squeamish on risking their children to continual rolling of the dice w.r.t the mRNA vector vaccines. Also, I can unequivocally state that no other vaccine have I ever seen that has to be continually boosted to maintain it's efficacy, which sounds to me like a deficiency in memory cell formation. The bigger issue there, is that in spite of that being an interesting quirk of these va…

> Also, I can unequivocally state that no other vaccine have I ever seen that has to be continually boosted to maintain it's efficacy

There’s a new flu vaccine every year.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#587

Post by helloworld11 »

Daishiman wrote: post #561
hotz wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Omicron is a mild flu. Live your life and have fun. Don't be a victim to fear mongering. I'm never getting vaccinated, I haven't been sick since this thing started. I'm South African, our vaccination rates are well below the rest of the world and we're relaxing restrictions. You wanna tell me us Africans have more common sense than the West? Don't let the media and politicians imprison you and turn you against the pe…

That's why your life expectancy is what it is.

Do you really believe this, or was that just a bit of casual and implicit racism to go with your fear mongering? Also, you are aware that pretty much all available evidence so far shows Omicron to indeed be extremely mild, in symptoms little different from a mild flu or a heavier cold?

If you've vaccinated yourself and ensured that your loved ones are in the same boat, its absurd to want to strong arm those who decide not to repeatedly vaccinate for their own personal choice. For one thing, they won't directly affect you. Secondly, at this early stage, how can you be sure that the vaccines themselves won't cause their own long-term consequences that cause you as a vaccine proponent to be in the wrong about good public health?

Live your own life, paranoid or not, but let others make their own choices, especially if they're young. Virtually nobody is lacking for a vaccination option if they're really worried about contact with the unvaxxed.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#588

Post by lamontcg »

salawat wrote: post #571
lamontcg wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Also, I can unequivocally state that no other vaccine have I ever seen that has to be continually boosted to maintain it's efficacy, which sounds to me like a deficiency in memory cell formation. The mRNA vaccines don't produce IgA-mediated sterilizing mucosal immunity and they would not have been expected to, and they should never have really been expected to or promoted as providing sterilizing immunity. The poin…

You didn't address half the concerns I brought up. I'll even give you your points on "not being designed to provide long term sterilizing immunity". You still haven't addressed the anti-pattern of cranking out "vaccines of the month", the environmental impact of utilizing a protein from a natural source in a QC process intended to track pharma batches for multiple doses for every human on earth, the incentive problem…

> You still haven't addressed the anti-pattern of cranking out "vaccines of the month"

We're still using the same OG strain vaccine that we started with and we're not doing this.

The ancestral mRNA vaccines still protect against death and hospitalization even with Omicron.

If you're doing your own research, then watch a course on virology and try to learn something:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jX3MhWWi6n4&list=PLGhmZX2NKi...

I probably do way more research than you do, but it all reinforces what the experts actually say because I don't spend all my time trolling blogs for counter intuitive takes so I can feel intellectually special.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#589

Post by egberts1 »

Daishiman wrote: post #565
egberts1 wrote: post #557

Earlier quoted context omitted.

so we did not have “breakthrough” (vaccinated folks catching COVID-19) cases on the Delta-variant of COVID-19 vaccine, right?

Why are you moving the conversation to something else? Breakthrough cases can be had while still dramatically reducing disease severity, transmissibility, hospitalizations, and chances of long COVID. All those things matter; all those are objectively improved by vaccination, even more by boosters. The only way you can actually ask this is by trying maliciously move the conversation to a nonsensical point. Neither mys…

Perhaps it is amplified by the media’s poor choice of reductive medical terminologies: as in “prevent” vs. “largely prevent”.

We both know that vaccine , in general, is intended to “greatly minimize risk”.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#590

Post by Jansen312 »

throw0101a wrote: post #333
criticaltinker wrote: post #313

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and this type of doublespeak is coming from the top down in many countries. It’s alarming because “they don’t believe in science” has become a divisive weapon that hand waves away all scientific nuance. The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses. Also, previous infection confers protection that is at least as…

> The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses. Of course they need a vaccine. Just because you don't have symptoms does not mean (a) that you're not carrying it, and (b) can't infect someone who may not be as healthy as you. Further it's difficult to predict ahead of time how an individual will react to being infe…

Vaccinated still can be infected and die from Covid. Most ICUs do have vaccinated there. So having the perception vaccines gives 100% protection is false. You should always keep this in mind as those they opt for no vaccines do weigh this piece of information while those that pro vaccines usually ignore and a lot not aware of it. Also in a world without vaccines, death from Covid is around 4% and at worst under 10% and that is based on denominator with limited testings. Read up on how Singapore overdo testings and you will be very surprised that death rates are well below 1%. Btw, I am pro vaccinations (looking forward for 4th jab booster of booster soon), similar to Elon's thinking. Vaccine is good but forcing people taking it is a no. That is simply too Stalinistic way no matter how much good intentions you have doing that forcing.
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