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Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

edmontonjournal.com

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Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#311

Post by atoav »

charlieyu1 wrote: post #86
guidovranken wrote: post #58

In other festive COVID news from Canada: >Canada's Justin Trudeau on the unvaccinated: >“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" https://twitter.com/KevinBardosh/status/1476838517007257600 My patience with COVID cultists is starting to run quite thin.

There is no science if doubts aren’t allowed.

Slight change:

There is no science if reasonable doubts aren't allowed.

The thing with this pandemic is, that the time where you could have a reasonable doubt in the vaccines are over for a while now. We vaccinated half of earths population. If there would have been horrible side effects they would have shown. The more data we gather the clearer the picture becomes and the less reasonable certain doubts become.

The thing about doubt is that one can always doubt anything. You can doubt that a stone in your hand falls to the ground if you let it go, but no amount of doubt will change the outcome if you actually do it. Physical reality for the most part doesn't care for our feelings. If you are a brilliant physicist you could doubt is the explainations why the stone falls to the ground, but you cannot reasonably doubt the fact that it does accelerate towards the ground, because this is what is observed.

You could have the feeling the universe is holographic and all this falling does not occur, however if you cannot create an experiment that would falsify existing, simpler explainations it remains just a interesting feeling and not a reasonable doubt.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#312

Post by huntertwo »

dekhn wrote: post #293
SamoyedFurFluff wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, do I understand this correctly that because you have heard of cases happening in vaccinated people, without studying them as broad populations, you think there isn’t a statistical difference in vaccinated and unvaccinated people as a population? Why?

While I understand where you are coming from, pretty much all the observational evidence is pointing to vaccines not being particularly effective against omicron, which seems to explain the data we are seeing (massive surge in infections and hospitalizations). That alone is enough information to reasonably conclude that the vaccine does not provide a high level of protection against omicron, even if we are nto doing…

Another explanation, the one that's more probable, is that omicron is much more infectious than the previous variants.

Actual studies that look at evidence and test hypotheses seem to suggest that mRNA vaccines are effective.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#313

Post by criticaltinker »

LaunchAway1 wrote: post #172
kstenerud wrote: post #50

To clarify for non-Canadians: EI benefits are generally only given if you lose your employment through no fault of your own (didn't quit or get fired). What this policy does is clarify that losing work hours or your job due to vaccine refusal after a workplace vaccination mandate (outside of medical exemptions) does NOT count as "through no fault of your own", and instructs employers to indicate as such. So: For the…

That's an interesting point to make and defendable but these declarations mentioned in another comment, I will assume to be true, coming from Trudeau, Canada's president: “They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" I have taken both shots, and will take the third but these declaration…

Yes and this type of doublespeak is coming from the top down in many countries.

It’s alarming because “they don’t believe in science” has become a divisive weapon that hand waves away all scientific nuance.

The vast majority of young healthy people are completely asymptomatic, they don’t need a vaccine, nor would it be a wise investment of limited doses.

Also, previous infection confers protection that is at least as effective as vaccination. This has been consistently observed since the beginning of the pandemic.

Vaccines can save the lives of many vulnerable people though; it’s an amazing tool and its use is certainly justified by science.

But using economic and financial engineering to force everyone to get vaccinated? There is no scientific evidence supporting that decision, and the second and third order consequences are completely unstudied. (evolution of viral resistance is one example; many experts are aware of the phenomenon but commenters here have been misled to believe that an airborne virus circulating the planet can be eradicated ‘if only everyone got vaccinated’)

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#314

Post by throwaway55421 »

jquery wrote: post #226
throwaway55421 wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving from 100% infected to 100% infected is not a reduction. At some point, there is no realistic difference between R=10 and R=7. Everyone is getting this. Some of us have known that since March 2020. If your theory includes "avoid being infected with coronavirus" and you live in a democratic country it is a flawed theory. Only full home isolation or hazmat suit rituals will suffice.

Overwhelmed ICUs and hospitals beg to differ that reducing transmission rate is useless. Reducing virulence is absolutely worthwhile even if eventually everyone will get infected at some point.

In fact the opposite is true. If everyone gets coronavirus in a two week period, ICU is less overwhelmed for the rest of the year. A lot of susceptible people die, of course.

If you attempt to spread it out and succeed, you're at 100% capacity basically all of the time, plus 99% of people get to deal with the fact that coronavirus restrictions are utterly miserable.

Omicron has probably made all of this irrelevant anyway, it's so contagious that effectively everyone who goes outside is getting it this month. 1 in 15 in London right now and that's only the confirmed cases I believe.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#315

Post by random314 »

guidovranken wrote: post #58

In other festive COVID news from Canada: >Canada's Justin Trudeau on the unvaccinated: >“They don’t believe in science/progress and are very often misogynistic and racist....This leads us, as a leader and as a country, to make a choice: Do we tolerate these people?" https://twitter.com/KevinBardosh/status/1476838517007257600 My patience with COVID cultists is starting to run quite thin.

No post body was provided.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#316

Post by ekianjo »

lostmsu wrote: post #269
ekianjo wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you will have to explain how high vaccination countries suddenly get huge outbreaks of infections.

Will I? Show me the data for high vaccination outbreak size == low vaccination outbreak size. I think your opinion is based on unrelated data.

You can't do a comparison like that because there are absolutely no 2 countries like each other and how they count cases is also different so that data does not exist.

You can however look at what's happening in a single country despite the vaccination: Portugal, with close to 90% vaccination rate, is getting the highest rates of infection ever as we speak. https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/portugal/

For a vaccine that's supposed to slow or stop the spread, sorry but that kind of trend is not very convincing.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#317

Post by simonh »

leereeves wrote: post #290
simonh wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, they can believe what they want as far as I’m concerned. Completely physically excluding them from society is enough. If they want to ‘protect’ themselves from the vaccine they have that right, absolutely, but the rest of us also have the right to protect ourselves from them.

Isn't the vaccine supposed to provide that protection from (catching Covid from) them?

Unvaccinated people are a threat to the public on many grounds. Many of these points are already all over this discussion here, but you’re asking so here they are.

Unvaccinated people with covid on average have the infection for longer and have higher viral loads, so they are more likely to spread the virus to others than vaccinated people are. They are much more likely to need hospitalisation, putting a burden on the health system which hurts health care workers, and uses up health care resources needed by others.

People with non-covid illnesses, or people with covid because they can’t be vaccinated for various legitimate reasons, are dying in some cases because health care systems are so busy caring for sick or dying vax deniers with covid.

So these people are a clear danger to the public, and our health care systems in particular. Their choices are putting unreasonable and unfair demands on health care workers, and even killing people.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#318

Post by middleclick »

peteradio wrote: post #309
middleclick wrote: post #295

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool. https://health-infobase.canada.ca/covid-19/epidemiological-s... Which groups are not "at-risk" here? What age? Because it seems like there is a significant % of the population in groups other than 80+ that are in the hospital.

Under 50 has 20% of ICU cases (how many are incidental and without comorbidity?).

You are the one who made the claim that age is relevant to this when it is not as if the ICUs are full, it impacts everyone.

So maybe find the source and share it here since you are the one who made the argument? Burden of proof is on you, not me.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#319

Post by PopeUrbanX »

cmmeur01 wrote: post #103
PopeUrbanX wrote: post #30

Good. Take away their free healthcare, too, so that they stop taking up ICU beds that smarter people might need.

Vaxxed in the US here, can you direct me to the free healthcare? Thanks.

This post is about Canada.

Re: Unvaccinated workers who lose jobs ineligible for unemployment benefits (Canada)

#320

Post by axiosgunnar »

MiroF wrote: post #265
axiosgunnar wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don’t smoke then, as second hand smoke affects us not addicted to nicotine, when you are standing outside of a shop and I have to walk by past you

Good point. I would be in favor of a similar law regarding smoking as regarding being unvaccinated. You are free to smoke/be unvaccinated outside or in your home, but if you wish to enter an establishment or work in an enclosed space, you must not smoke/be unvaccinated.

Not smoke at all when at work, because otherwise you are going to take smoking breaks „outside” but actually positioned in such a way next to an open door that the air flow will pull the smoke towards inside and I will still smell it
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