Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall • Hacker News Board

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#581

Post by sandworm101 » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:39 AM UTC

stbtrax wrote: post #571

annexrichmond wrote: post #539

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as someone who's lived in SF for years this is all very true. Food is expensive and a lot of it's designed to be instagrammed. There are definitely some great spots but not that many and really not that diverse (lacks middle eastern, greek, british, American bbq, spanish) Nightlife is horrible, bars pretty much close at 1am, hardly any live music, gender imbalance, and not much density so it often just feels "dead" i…

I'm not sure what you're comparing it to, SF is known to have a world-class food scene. There are multiple examples all of the things you listed(except maybe british but who wants that?), as well as things that you don't find in may other cities: burmese, cambodian, laotian, peruvian.

>> SF is known to have a world-class food scene.

Exactly. It is known to have a scene. It is a great place for people who like to go to restaurants. For people who like good food, not so much. I remember going to a tea tasting in SF's chinatown while at a conference there. My friend (a local) asked if we had such good tea in Vancouver. The shop owner who was serving us interrupted: "They do. My brother has a shop there. He sent me this tea."

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#582

Post by opportune » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:39 AM UTC

bluedevil2k wrote: post #18

It’s odd they don’t mention the sky high taxes in California as a driving force for the exodus and the fact the Gavin Newsom wants to raise them even more to cover Covid shortages. There’s only so much you can squeeze out of people before they’ll pack up an go.

When going remote you don't get to avoid the California state taxes for the year, will never avoid it for current granted-but-unvested RSUs, and won't avoid them in the future unless you get your employer to actually change your employment to the new state (not exactly sure what the process is here, but I know my 'desk' is in CA so I have to pay taxes there). So this doesn't apply to the many people in the technology industry leaving CA to take advantage of temporary remote work

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#583

Post by refurb » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:39 AM UTC

matt-attack wrote: post #572

wolco wrote: post #552

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's like the stock market, buy on the dip. This year would be a great year to buy the sf property if you see yourself there in 5 years.

The article mentioned rents down, but have housing prices dipped?

Condos are, but single family home prices are going up.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#584

Post by lsiebert » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:40 AM UTC

justchilly wrote: post #174

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

I know a fair number of people moving away because it's too expensive.

I think it's important to recognize that unless you know people from a broad selection of socioeconomic groups, it's easy to have observer bias.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#585

Post by diogenescynic » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:41 AM UTC

A few of my friends have been asked to take pay cuts and/or relocate out of SF so the company could avoid the city payroll tax. I imagine this will have ripple effects. I already see more office space for lease signs, for rent, and for sale signs than any other time I can remember. SF Bay Area is due for a massive fall in real estate prices.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#586

Post by opportune » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:43 AM UTC

justchilly wrote: post #174

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

I've seen the same. The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. About half of the tech people I know have…

Just because you can afford it doesn't mean it's a good deal, basically. And living in SF with everything shut down is a pretty terrible deal.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#587

Post by chrisdhoover » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:43 AM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #437

rtlfe wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them?

What are these quality of life issues, and how have other cities avoided them? They haven't. But other cities have handled some quality of life issues differently, or better, or in some cases worse. It's all cyclical. New York was a great place to be in the 60's, largely due to quality of life. New York in the 70's was a hellhole, largely due to quality of life. These things ebb and flow in every city. It's just SFO'…

Did I miss something at the airport? I haven’t flown in over a year, is it a hellhole now? Was it ride sharing that fostered the downturn?

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#588

Post by i_am_viet » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:44 AM UTC

mrgordon wrote: post #554

dongvsascript wrote: post #534

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i did not say poor quality food. i said very average food, overpresented artistically and overpriced. farm to table isn't good for meat -aged meat is better. aged about a month. sushi -yes. except very little sushi from what i saw in sf. a lot of weird rolls, which is not sushi to me. good sushi was in tokyo, where i have lived for several months. fresh produce is shipped overnight anywhere nowadays. being near a far…

San Francisco has functional public transit which escapes almost every American city and the cool neighborhoods are in fact quite dense, like the Mission. This is why people view it as one of the most walkable cities in America even though it may not be a compact area built around a train station like much of Europe, for example. I would like that, but that’s not how any of America is. You went to a few sushi roll pl…

Actually, sake can be enjoyed cold, warm, or hot. Having the sake serve at a warm temperature doesn’t mean there is anything inherently wrong with the sake itself.

The purpose of changing the temperature, as you pointed out, is to change the flavor notes. Having a particular sake cold may bring out fruitier notes while warming it up gives it an extra layer of vanilla. This is just an example. All sake have different notes and it can be really subjective on what notes are being registered. The ability to change the flavor drastically just by temperature is what makes sake interesting. This legit use isn’t just limited to subpar sake, but to the entire quality spectrum sake as well. So it really depends on many factors like the intended temperature consumption by the brewery or the establishment you are consuming the sake at (they want particular notes to come up so it goes well with the pairing of a dish, for example), or the most important: consumers palate.

Playing with the temperature is akin to whisky drinking: neat vs on the rocks vs water dropper. Each preparation changes the flavor and aren’t necessary bad.

You are correct that warming up bad quality sake can mask the undesirable attributes.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#589

Post by diogenescynic » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:45 AM UTC

captaincole wrote: post #102

I am living in SF now and this confirms a very clear pattern that I have seen emerging, particularly of tech workers. I would say that >50% of the people I know who were living in the city have left, or are in the process of leaving. Some examples (there are countless): 1) All three of the roommates that I had are choosing to leave either permanently or temporarily. 2) A friend who works for google who is going on a…

Also, all the H-1B and L-1 visa recipients who are not here since the Trump admin has been actively working against them.

Re: Remote work is reshaping San Francisco, as tech workers flee and rents fall

#590

Post by foobarian » Mon, Aug 17, 2020, 1:45 AM UTC

radicaldreamer wrote: post #530

koolba wrote: post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The misconception is that people are leaving because the housing is too expensive and its not worth it anymore. Almost everybody I know that moved out had no problem affording housing (high earners / home owners / rent controlled). People are leaving because quality of life has fallen dramatically and the only thing keeping people in SF was their offices. Whether something is too expensive is not just a function of…

Only in the short to medium term... the characteristics which make SF an attractive place to live (just like NYC) are resilient and sticky. If you consider a post-covid world 5 years from now, do you think that SF with it's museums, bars, restaurants, and proximity to nature will be an unattractive place to live? Do you think that remote-first/remote-only companies where the majority of employees are outside of the b…

There are bars and restaurants and museums in hundreds of cities around the country. What makes the ones in SF so special? Or is it rather a tech gravity hole that was enabled by combination of chance and attractive climate?