America is giving up on the pandemic? • Hacker News Board

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#581

Post by thisiszilff » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:15 AM UTC

6gvONxR4sf7o wrote: post #43

I support the protests, and believe they can be done safely, but we can't forget about the virus. A quick googling gives me numbers between 300 and 1000 people dying of police violence per year. Call it 1k-2k per year. If we eliminate 50-100 years of that, we match what coronavirus has done in a couple months. However, places are starting to relax the shelter-in-place rules already, so people going out now isn't comp…

It is important to note that this isn't just about police brutality. There are a number of racial disparities that result in more black deaths. From the letter:

> lack people suffer from dramatic health disparities in life expectancy, maternal and infant mortality, chronic medical conditions, and outcomes from acute illnesses like myocardial infarction and sepsis. Biological determinants are insufficient to explain these disparities. They result from long-standing systems of oppression and bias which have subjected people of color to discrimination in the healthcare setting, decreased access to medical care and healthy food, unsafe working conditions, mass incarceration, exposure to pollution and noise, and the toxic effects of stress.

So 1k-2k per year would be a low estimate. Some will correctly point out that that 1k-2k killed by police includes people that are committing violent crimes (ie, killing them may not be unjust). The response to that argument is to look at the intersection of poverty and race to see how systemic racism drives crime in black communities.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#582

Post by joegahona » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:16 AM UTC

metrokoi wrote: post #90

Quoted from a letter from 1,000 health professionals on the virus and protests [0] >However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission. We support them as vital to the national public health and to the threatened health specifically of Black people in the United States. We can show that support by facilitating safest protesting practices without detracting from…

> This letter is signed by 1,288 public health professionals, infectious diseases professionals, and community stakeholders.

Would love a breakdown of this. "Community stakeholders" is meaningless. The letter reads like something you'd see on change.org.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#583

Post by rpiguy » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:22 AM UTC

newjersey wrote: post #380

jabedude wrote: post #351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That don't need to be armed with firearms You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. 43 states are "shall-issue" and allow residents to conceal carry a firearm after completing required training and submitting an application.

> You're asking police officers to be less armed then the general public. Can we at least agree that off-duty police officers working as security guards at a hospital or elsewhere should not under any circumstance carry a weapon (other than perhaps a stick or something) while on non-police duty? > Soon, from inside the room, there was shouting, sounds of a scuffle and a loud pop. During an altercation, two off-duty H…

Hospitals have millions of dollars worth of equipment, contain huge amounts of narcotics, and deal with psyche patients. They need to be armed.

My mother was a nurse and had guns drawn in the hospital by opposing members of a gang there to inspect someone who was shot.

There are three main problems. District attorneys who do not like to charge cops. Police unions protecting cops. And the justice system requires a unanimous jury verdict to convict. This is to protect the accused.

If you think the riots are crazy now, wait until the jury is hung or acquits Floyd because one juror has doubt. Floyd had fentanyl in his system.

The lawyer only needs to convince ONE juror that it wasn’t just Chauvins fault that the fentanyl contributed to it and you can’t know BEYOND A REASONABLE DOUBT that it was all Chauvins fault and boom, he gets off.

This has a reasonable probability of happening. I hope it doesn’t and he convicted. But this is the real second wave I am worried about. More than Covid.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#584

Post by [deleted] » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:22 AM UTC

bagacrap wrote: post #506

Animats wrote: post #304

Total deaths in US caused by police. (2019, full year): 1112 [1] Total deaths in US caused by coronavirus (last Friday, one day): 975 [2] [1] https://www.theroot.com/here-s-how-many-people-police-killed... [2] https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries

I'm sure if protesting could cure coronavirus, the masses would have been out in the street for that too.

[deleted]

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#585

Post by marcusverus » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:22 AM UTC

poulsbohemian wrote: post #566

smsm42 wrote: post #373

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> However, as public health advocates, we do not condemn these gatherings as risky for COVID-19 transmission That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Which most people would take as implying it's not actually risky - even though they are not saying that. They…

> That's a shining example of weasel speak. They don't explicitly say it's not risky - because that would be plain lying, it is obviously risky - but they are saying they are not condemning it as risky. Perhaps it’s not so much weasel words as a carefully coded “caveat emptor”

A weasel in a cravat is still a weasel.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#586

Post by tootie » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:23 AM UTC

bmmayer1 wrote: post #580

tootie wrote: post #548

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't weasel speak at all. They're pretty clear that it's risky. They're just saying that they won't condemn protestors as taking frivolous risks the way anti-lockdown protestors or fun-seekers are. Police brutality, systemic racism, income inequality are all major public health risks in their own right.

I don't understand -- are keeping people out of work and isolated at home not public health risks? If non-Covid related factors are being considered in weighing against the risks of exposure they should all be considered, not only some of them, selectively.

Don't be obtuse. Of course all factors were considered. Keeping people out of offices and shops is not a public health risk. People becoming impoverished and losing health insurance is. That's why the federal government spent $2T protecting people's financial health to offset the damage. The bigger question is why health care access is tied to employment, but there's no way the current regime would consider dealing with that issue.

Also, you're comparing government policy with an academic opinion.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#587

Post by giantDinosaur » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:25 AM UTC

The weirdest thing to me is that we have people protesting for fairly deontological reasons - i.e. a reasonable 'killing is wrong', while being ruthlessly utilitarian - 'covid deaths are a price we must be willing to pay for reform'. Interesting!

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#588

Post by chrisseaton » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:25 AM UTC

rpiguy wrote: post #575

CydeWeys wrote: post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Statistically speaking it's very rare, yet many cops unjustifiably spend all day of every shift on edge like they could get into a gun battle at any second. And it shows in how frequently cops unjustifiably escalate situations to deadly force that didn't remotely require it.

Evidence? Statistics? Most cops are not ready for gun battle at any second.

> Most cops are not ready for gun battle at any second.

In the US they've got loaded and cocked guns on their waist belts ready to use in a second.

Note that when I was in a literal warzone I didn't even always keep my rifle cocked.

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#589

Post by likeclockwork » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:27 AM UTC

jbritton wrote: post #231

bryant wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

This population measurement is not useful for determining racism. It does not consider that blacks make up 13% of the population, but commit 52% of the homicides. It doesn’t consider if the shootings are justified. It doesn’t consider black cops shooting black suspects. There is in general insufficient data to support or reject that there is systemic racism. Here is a good article on things to consider https://www.ci…

"black cops shooting black suspects" ... that's still police violence against black people, still racist.

You think there's no black servants of white supremacy?

Re: America is giving up on the pandemic?

#590

Post by fennecfoxen » Mon, Jun 08, 2020, 1:28 AM UTC

tootie wrote: post #586

bmmayer1 wrote: post #580

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand -- are keeping people out of work and isolated at home not public health risks? If non-Covid related factors are being considered in weighing against the risks of exposure they should all be considered, not only some of them, selectively.

Don't be obtuse. Of course all factors were considered. Keeping people out of offices and shops is not a public health risk. People becoming impoverished and losing health insurance is. That's why the federal government spent $2T protecting people's financial health to offset the damage. The bigger question is why health care access is tied to employment, but there's no way the current regime would consider dealing w…

No. Unemployment is generally regarded as a public health risk, beyond the immediate insurance consequences. There will moreover be people who suffer long-term impacts that these short-term payments can only partially mitigate.