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Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

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Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#571

Post by Nevermark »

chii wrote: post #456
Nevermark wrote: post #326

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Everyone on a plan pays for the max set of tokens in that plan. From Anthropic's perspective, everyone pays to be in bins with a given max. And to everyone's benefit, there is a wide distribution of actual use. Most people pay for the convenience of knowing they have a max if they need it, not so they always use it. So Anthropic does something nice, and drops the price for everyone. They kick back some of the (actu…

> there is a wide distribution of actual use except when people start using openclaw, and the distribution narrows (to that of a power user). I hate companies that try to oversell capacity but hides it in the expected usage distribution. Same goes for internet bandwidth from ISP (or download limit - rarer these days, but exists). Or airplane seats. Or electricity.

> I hate companies that try to oversell capacity but hides it in the expected usage distribution.

Except they charge you less because of the distribution. Competition for customers doesn't evaporate.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#572

Post by imp0cat »

klohto wrote: post #529
danpalmer wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't use grossly offensive terms in this forum. That sort of language is not welcome here.

Since when are you a moderator?

Since when are you a meta-moderator? ;)

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#573

Post by himata4113 »

I disagree with the sentiment here. Anthropic is profiting off everything they do, subscriptions not so much, but they are definitely not losing money in a way most people claim they do. These subscriptions are not only advertisement, but also the reason why trying to load the claude user account on github errors out.

IMO, the goal here is clear: they want them to use their software, have people build an ecosystem around their software, they want to have visibility around their software.

It's never about capacity or usage, they just want to have the claude ecosystem, there is a reason why they don't support AGENTS.MD or other initiatives, they want everything to be theirs and theirs alone. You can argue that 'well fair', but to me this is clear abuse of their position in the market.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#574

Post by PunchyHamster »

goosejuice wrote: post #490
fabbbbb wrote: post #459

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To some degree sure, is it about the number tokens you can max out? I’m pretty happy knowing that it supports my development workflow for a week. Recent features like the Code Desktop built in browser, Cowork with Claude in Chrome and remote control matter to me way more than the number of tokens. But that’s me. Depends on their targeted ICP also, which they are free to define. Is it those users maxing out tokens for…

> I’m pretty happy knowing that it supports my development workflow for a week For many it doesn't. It's opaque, it changes, and they bury the news in fucking twitter. https://x.com/trq212/status/2037254607001559305 There's a lot to love about Anthropic. But man do they suck at PR.

Oh no, man fell in love with corporation

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#575

Post by crote »

goosejuice wrote: post #251
brookst wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, it is priced correctly. Just because outliers can be money-losing doesn’t mean you should raise the price for everyone.

> Just because outliers can be money-losing doesn’t mean you should raise the price for everyone. If they are losing money then it's not priced correctly. That's what I responded to. Yes, subscriptions work as you say. Plenty of people under utilize subscriptions from prime, to credit cards, to netflix. But if they lost money overall, they too would raise prices. Because that's how economics works. Shortage of capaci…

> If they are losing money then it's not priced correctly.

Just a few years ago this was the standard business model for startups: attract VC money, offer plans at a loss, capture a huge market, boil the frog with incremental price increases to become profitable.

Companies like Uber wouldn't have been anywhere near as successful if they had been forced to make a profit from day one.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#576

Post by PunchyHamster »

jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

No, people want transparency. If it was "x tokens per time interval, then you pay extra", the problem wouldn't exist.

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#577

Post by ahtihn »

theshrike79 wrote: post #510
manmal wrote: post #481

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> not allow something like OpenClaw on our network And where’s the difference between the Claude Desktop app and OpenClaw at this point? Anthropic have been hard at work porting the most important features. You can easily shoot yourself in the foot with both now.

We have a legal contract with Anthropic OpenClaw and OpenCode are open source projects with zero warranty and nobody to sue if they have a npm Trojan in them

So you don’t use any other open source software at all then?

The risk with OpenClaw et al isn't that the software itself is compromised. The risk is that what it does is fundamentally insecure and Claude Code isn't any better

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#578

Post by nc »

wild_egg wrote: post #81
firloop wrote: post #47

This is slightly different from what OpenCode was banned from doing; they were a separate harness grabbing a user’s Claude Code session and pretending to be Claude Code. OpenClaw was still using Claude Code as the harness (via claude -p)[0]. I understand why Anthropic is doing this (and they’ve made it clear that building products around claude -p is disallowed) but I fear Conductor will be next. [0]: See “Option B:…

I keep hearing OpenClaw runs on pi? EDIT: confused by downvotes. In this thread people are saying it runs on top of `claude -p` and others saying it's on pi. The `claude -p` option is allowed per https://x.com/i/status/2040207998807908432 so I really don't understand how they're enforcing this.

It runs on pi, not claude -p

Re: Tell HN: Anthropic no longer allowing Claude Code subscriptions to use OpenClaw

#579

Post by scotty79 »

jesse_dot_id wrote: post #73

There seem to be a ton of people who don't understand how subscription services work. Every single one of them oversells their capacity. The power users that use the services a lot are subsidized by those who don't use it as much, which tends to be the vast majority of the user base. OpenClaw is an autonomous power user. The growing adoption of this walking attack surface was either going to A) cause the cost of Clau…

So basically their move is an admission that they can't scale up their capacity accordingly to shifting demand while keeping the current pricing.

Customers have their own value calculations. If they can't use Claude for autonomous agent at reasonable price they will move to providers that are cheaper and more flexible. Autonomous agent adds way more utility than a marginally better LLM (assuming that's even true).

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