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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#571

Post by ehnto »

mayama wrote: post #514
jesterson wrote: post #394

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> they no longer have the engineering prowess to compete That's not nearly the case. They have made one of best EVs back in years, but decided to focus on hybrids. And that makes total sense.

To compete in EV, one has to compete also in battery manufacturing. Increasingly Japan is unable to keep up with China and even Korean manufacturers. Panasonic is still in the race due to their decades lead, but its market is largely shrinking. Once China took over batteries, it would have been unlikely for Japan to take the EV market, just like Sony. Same with most American EV manufacturers who are unable to compete…

They can purchase the battery technology, just as many manufacturers already do.

I hate to be a luddite, but they also don't need to be pioneers to succeed here. They need cars that meet their customers needs, just like not every ICE car needs to have an F1 racing engine in it.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#572

Post by beeflet »

slg wrote: post #417
scj wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "At a societal level, cars that can automatically fix a "recall" with an over-the-air update..." If an over-the-air patch can have that kind of impact, then what happens if security is compromised and that power is used for ill?

When was the last time you worried about someone cutting your brakes? A lot of times these hypothetical fears are disconnected from reality. Security is important, but people generally don't engage in destruction for destruction's sake so improving default safety levels has been a clear net positive for society so far. Maybe I'm being shortshighted and a future security exploit will change that, but it's not somethin…

If you want to talk about society, then this is about systematic security not individual security. If someone somewhere can push a button and flash your car with OTA firmware to drive you off a bridge, political assasinations become a lot easier.

In fact, with all this data they are collecting, you wouldn't even need to be the next edward snowden to get this treatment. You could set the firmware to target, say, every left-wing voter in america.

You don't even need the own the car with such behavior. Everyone becomes a pedestrian eventually.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#573

Post by youarentrightjr »

rTX5CMRXIfFG wrote: post #272
youarentrightjr wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Chinese don't use anything novel that has not been established in Western science already Like they say: in theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they aren't. It's all well and good to have knowledge of the techniques, or to even have published or created them. But applying them successfully, working out all the kinks, and streamlining everything to become profitable doesn't happen overnight. I…

I’m not sure that that aphorism is helpful, my experience with theory is that it includes time and effort considerations

> my experience with theory is that it includes time and effort considerations

I would never disagree with you here. But the point is that the time and effort you spend on theory doesn't translate to time and effort spent on practice.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#574

Post by vachina »

bluGill wrote: post #486
moogly wrote: post #282

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers include PHEV cars. As a BEV owner, I consider PHEV to be more ICE than BEV. BEV numbers are not as impressive, but we're getting there, slowly but surely. A bit slower than I would've hoped.

My Phev is about 80% ev. It uses a tank of gas a month, replacing a nearly identical vehicle (similar body and same engine - though other things have changed) that needed one or two tanks a week.

PHEV feels good on paper, but in ICE mode they’re terrible. On a recent long road trip they do about 14km/L with a fully charged EV range of 50km. Quite inefficient to lug a petrol engine and a semi large battery all the time.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#575

Post by beeflet »

slg wrote: post #441
rjp0008 wrote: post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cutting someones breaks requires physical access to the hardware. Changing: if (brakeDepressed()){ engageBrake(); } To: if (brakeDepressed() && currentTime < '5/6/26 4pm EST'){ engageBrake(); } Can be deployed to thousands of vehicles, and would stop brakes from working during peak commute time on the East Coast.

Someone who can write out that code with that specificity should know there are countless technical and procedural ways to help prevent that sort of thing from actually making its way into consumer vehicles (or that OTA updates would be the only avenue to accomplish that). In a properly designed system, the only real fear here is a state-level attack. And I just don't think getting every Honda to crash at 4pm is a vu…

How do you know that a car is the result of a properly designed system before you get behind the wheel (or step in front of it?).

>the only real fear here is a state-level attack

Why isn't this a valid concern? We should just be fine with russia or china having the ability to remotely hack all of our cars and kill/spy on individuals, even critical members of our leadership? What about our own government? What about some terrorist launching formerly state-level malware from his basement with the help of AI?

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#576

Post by elihu »

ta9000 wrote: post #5

Ironically, Trump attacking Iran and closing the Strait is a boon to China and EV makers. Once the car is produced, aside from lubricants, it’s completely independent of oil. Heck you can put panels on your rooftop and slow charge it during the day.

It may be a boon to EV makers everywhere including in China, but I don't think it's a boon to China generally as they buy a lot of their oil from the Gulf states. Thus they're more directly affected by the Hormuz shutdown than the US (which is a net oil exporter and is mostly only affected indirectly by price increases).

Like the Ukraine war, maybe one good thing thing we can say about this terrible situation is that it may encourage a lot of countries to move to renewables (or nuclear) sooner than they otherwise would and cut back on fossil fuels.

The energy crises of the 1970s caused people to start caring a lot more about fuel economy. Now we have the technology for people not to need to buy gas to propel their vehicle at all, and many of them once they switch they're never switching back.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#577

Post by ahf8Aithaex7Nai »

tim-projects wrote: post #240
ahf8Aithaex7Nai wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honda is launching the WN7 this year. It seems like a typical Honda motorcycle: not for those obsessed with specs, but definitely a solid and well-designed bike. If I were currently looking for a mid-sized electric motorcycle, this would be my top choice for the same reasons people choose Honda for gasoline-powered motorcycles.

It's $15,000 about 15x the price of a standard gas powered Honda motorcycle. Also completely impractical for daily life in Asia. No wonder I've not seen one yet

Yes, you’re absolutely right. The WN7 is intended more for the European market. For the Global South, something like the Zeno Emara is more suitable. Although I’d buy one right away if it were available here in Germany at a similarly affordable price. Since the beginning of the year, my perspective on e-motorcycles has shifted a bit. I ride an e-scooter to the office and have really gotten into it. Ride, charge, ride, charge, ride, charge, ride, and practically no maintenance: I find that very appealing! That’s why I took notice of the WN7.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#578

Post by dbacar »

I can imagine Honda executives thinking that they can wait out the awkward transition period and, when motors and batteries are fully sorted, simply swap out the fossil fuel bits. How hard could it be?

The article loses its credibility once it imagines a multi-billion, multi-country company executives thinking this way :).

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#579

Post by palmotea »

neya wrote: post #453
rkagerer wrote: post #308

Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time. No thank you. Not sure why the author frames this as a good thing. They've been bamboozled by the automakers and have got it backwards - you're buying a vehicle that already has the capabilities, but are disabled,…

Most people including the author think more software = premium/better. But as software engineers, we know better. That's not the case at all. More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments. For this reason, I always avoid cars with big flashy LCD screens that are central to controlling the cars accessories like sunroof, AC and other electricals. The other issue is support. So man…

> More software = more control by everyone else except you. Manufacturers. Governments.

Also more unreliability, because software engineers often aren't real engineers.

> The other issue is support. So many models stop getting updates after 5 years. So, if there is a bug in that big screen, you have to live with it for the rest of the car's life.

The problem here is (probably) the internet, which gives management an excuse to slack on QA. If there was no chance to ever update the software, they'd probably do a better job. But now with the internet, they can say they'll just fix it in a patch later, but then never actually get around to doing that.

There ought to be a law that says car software may only be shipped on console-style non-flash ROM carts.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#580

Post by vachina »

jacquesm wrote: post #242
joe_mamba wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, visiting my ex-Gf family in Norway, I realized how much richer Norwegians are that it's not even funny. It's not really a market representative of the average buyer. Same how neither Switzerland, Luxembourg or Monaco are. I am living in a working class neighborhood of apartment buildings in West-central Europe with average to below average earners, and there's zero EVs parked here on the streets, basically 90%…

I do live in a house, could easily afford an EV and have plenty of solar to keep it charged. And I still don't have one because all of these EVs feel like the worst of the computer world applied to automotive. The last thing I need is a computer on wheels and I'm old enough that I know my current car is likely my last. For my kids it is different, and I'm sure that they'll go electric at some point but I hope that th…

Ironically society would benefit tremendously from “computer on wheels” because when you inevitably have a heart attack on the road your car won’t swerve onto oncoming traffic or crash into people.
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