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Honda is killing its EVs

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Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#151

Post by Nition »

walthamstow wrote: post #93
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

Norway is a very special case in that it has massive hydro energy resources and nobody lives there.

There must be more to it than this, or we'd have fantastic EV uptake here in New Zealand (we don't - EVs currently only have a 6% market share).

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#152

Post by speedgoose »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

At least it doesn’t smell ICE fumes downtown. That’s neat.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#153

Post by youarentrightjr »

fakedang wrote: post #140
hangonhn wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think they do have a moat because they dominate the supply chain not just in the raw material and processing but also in some of the actual technical experience, i.e. the experience of running such processing facilities, and also a monopoly on making the equipment that you need to build such a facility. They put export controls on those equipment and restricted their citizens who work in the rare earths industry fr…

I have worked with the Chinese REE industry, and we've often bumped heads and shared ideas together with them and I can confidently tell you, the Chinese don't use anything novel that has not been established in Western science already. What they do have is executing rarely-used techniques confidently at scale, but all of that is already often published in the West. The only reason the West hasn't done it is because…

> the Chinese don't use anything novel that has not been established in Western science already

Like they say: in theory, theory and practice are the same; in practice, they aren't.

It's all well and good to have knowledge of the techniques, or to even have published or created them. But applying them successfully, working out all the kinks, and streamlining everything to become profitable doesn't happen overnight.

I have no doubt alternate sources can exist, but not without significant time and effort.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#154

Post by simulator5g »

codazoda wrote: post #147
billfor wrote: post #129

"Here, Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time." I'll pay triple for a non software defined vehicle that doesn't track me and can't be touched by the dealer once I purchase it. My one SDV (Tesla) is still on FSD from 2023 because the newer versions are t…

I just got a Honda Hybrid. It doesn’t phone home or do updates automatically, as far as I can tell, and I love this.

Actually it does do that. They sell your driving data to your insurance company & government.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#155

Post by speedgoose »

walthamstow wrote: post #93
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

Norway is a very special case in that it has massive hydro energy resources and nobody lives there.

Solar and wind is cheap too, no need to attack the Middle East.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#156

Post by expedition32 »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

Most of the profits come from rich countries. And even then especially the more expensive cars.

(Personally I am fine driving a 10 year old shit box because for me it is just a means of going from A to B and rather spend my money on other things)

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#157

Post by onlyrealcuzzo »

jacquesm wrote: post #92
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

> I live in a top EV market, Norway. It is the top EV market. > I figure most other countries will be the same. Most other countries are not Norway, it is a very wealthy, tiny market (150 K vehicles/year) with lots of hydro and not representative of the typical vehicle market in Western Europe and definitely not representative of the situation in the rest of the world. EVs are the future, there is no doubt about that…

I mean - how are you defining most?

Most countries are quite poor and/or have small populations and aren't buying many vehicles period.

About ~45% of countries have smaller populations than Norway, and Norway is in the top ~25% of countries by size of the auto market...

Most countries are not the China and India, yet they make up almost 45% of the global population.

The US and China make up about 45% of the auto market...

There's a lot of European, Asian, and Latin American countries that have more in common with Norway than they do with the US or China or India.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#158

Post by p1necone »

Night_Thastus wrote: post #108
boringg wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting but North America has different needs for vehicles. Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. I would also say that any ICE vehicle that has 0 subscription models, upgradable firmware, tracking software will probably have a value premium to it in the not distant future. FWIW downvoters - I have a PHEV…

>Long time before our electrical systems to be able to compensate for that kind of whole sale change. Will be at least 20 years if it ever happens. There's little to no reason that the electrical grid itself needs to change for the sake of EV's. The biggest problem is that while slow charging (L2) in your own garage would be perfect for 99%+ of people in the US, and isn't even very expensive, that's a barrier to entr…

> The biggest problem is that while slow charging (L2) in your own garage would be perfect for 99%+ of people in the US, and isn't even very expensive, that's a barrier to entry most people do not want to screw with.

I feel like this is only an opinion that people who have never actually used an EV have. Plugging in my car overnight at home every few days is infinitely more convenient than needing to drive somewhere to plug it in somewhere else. The actual charge time is irrelevant as long as it's not more than ~12 hrs.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#159

Post by mperham »

billfor wrote: post #129

"Here, Honda is setting itself up for failure on the second disruption sweeping the automotive industry: the software-defined vehicle (SDV), which has core capabilities that can be upgraded and improved over time." I'll pay triple for a non software defined vehicle that doesn't track me and can't be touched by the dealer once I purchase it. My one SDV (Tesla) is still on FSD from 2023 because the newer versions are t…

> My Tesla is still on FSD from 2023 because the newer versions are terrible judging from the comments on the Tesla forums.

I've had FSD since 2020; the latest version is noticeably better than 2020. I wouldn't put too much stock in forums which tend to skew negative.

Re: Honda is killing its EVs

#160

Post by designerarvid »

walthamstow wrote: post #93
TrackerFF wrote: post #85

I live in a top EV market, Norway. ICE cars have been planned out for years now, and something like 96% of all new cars in Norway were EV last year. Basically, if you plan on keeping selling ICE cars, you're removing yourself from the market here. There's no future for new personal ICE cars here. I figure most other countries will be the same.

Norway is a very special case in that it has massive hydro energy resources and nobody lives there.

And lots of bad conscious from all the oil.
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