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Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

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Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#571

Post by gregopet »

nightpool wrote: post #194
rebolek wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that most websites need cookies. I have a website with short stories. It lets you set font size and dark/bright theme, nothing special. Do I want to store your settings on server? No, why should I waste my resources? Just store it in your browser! Cookies are perfect for that. Do I know your settings? No, I don't, I don't care. I set a cookie, JS reads it and changes something on client. No tracking at all. C…

Unfortunately, because these types of preferences (font size, dark/light mode theme) are "non-essential", you are required to inform users about them using a cookie banner, per EU ePrivacy directive (the one that predates the GDPR). So if you don't use a cookie banner in this case, you are not in compliance.

That's not true. You can use those cookies, you just need to explain them somewhere on the site. No opt in required.

I talked with our then national information law official (funny fact, same person is currently president of our country), rule of thumb is if you're not using your users' personal data to pay for other people's services (e.g Google analytics) or putting actual personal data in them, you're generally fine without the banner.

Further, if you're a small shop or individual acting in good faith and somehow still violated the law, they will issue a warning first so you can fix the issue. Only the blatant violations by people who should've known better will get a fine instantly (that is the practice here, anyway, I assumed that was the agreement between EU information officers)

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#572

Post by gregopet »

zrn900 wrote: post #161
jonesjohnson wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the issue was never the law. the issue were the 100s of tracking cookies and that websites would use dark patterns or simply not offer a "no to all" button at all (which is against the law, btw.) Most websites do. not. need. cookies. It's all about tracking and surveillance to show you different prices on airbnb and booking.com to maximise their profits. https://noyb.eu/en/project/cookie-banners (edit: link)

> Most websites do. not. need. cookies. All websites need cookies, at least for functionality and for analytics. We aren't living in the mid-1990s when websites were being operated for free by university departments or major megacorps in a closed system. The cookie law screwed all the small businesses and individuals who needed to be able to earn money to run their websites. It crippled everyone but big megacorps, wh…

Functional cookies are fine. Even analytics is fine if you're using your own (though said own analytics must also company with GDPR personal data retention rules).

What is not fine is giving away your users' personal data to pay for your analytics bill.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#573

Post by [deleted] »

radicalbyte wrote: post #398
mmooss wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we've lost a lot of the hacker spirit and have a larger proportion of "chancers", people who are only in tech to "get rich quick". Doesn't that describe SV in general, and big tech in particular?

> Doesn't that describe SV in general, and big tech in particular? Absolutely! It's just that the hopeful hacker/nerd culture used to be more dominant here (slashdot had the more cynical types). Now there are a generation who don't know anything but Javascript but think that they're God's gift to programming. I can understand it as ZIRP resulted in the bar being dropped to the floor for jobs which paid SV salaries. I…

[deleted]

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#574

Post by necovek »

nomel wrote: post #500
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

You can do this trivially in modern browsers: private browsing. I have one "normal" browser window for "persistent cookie" use (like gmail, youtube, etc) and another "private" window for everything else. Cookies are lost anytime a tab closes.

Are you sure cookies get scrapped after you close a tab? Does opening a single session-based web site in multiple tabs work (eg. logged into Amazon in a private browser)? What browser are you using?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#575

Post by novok »

hekkle wrote: post #502
nine_k wrote: post #391

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More regulation , or stronger regulation, as in less wiggle room for businesses, may be a good thing. Case in point: a regulation requiring to disclose the ingredients of food. Too many regulations is almost always a bad thing: numerous pieces of regulation rarely fit together seamlessly. It becomes easier to miss some obscure piece, or to encounter a contradiction, or to find a loophole. The cost of compliance also…

> The cost of compliance also grows, and that disproportionately favors big established players. Not true at all. Most of the harsher regulations only come into effect when the company hits a specific size. Examples from Australia (my country): - Online shops that operate overseas, and import to Australia have to collect sales tax... but only if they make more than $75,000 from Australia per annum. - Social media has…

Why isn't #1 an import duty sales tax system instead and you need to declare the proper value as part of shipping, or the good is rejected / confiscated?

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#576

Post by novok »

ywain wrote: post #570
Myrmornis wrote: post #520

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People don't know whether they are or are not doing things that require consent under the law. That's because, if you haven't noticed, the people concerned are computer programmers, UI designers, and PMs. Notably missing from that list is "lawyers who can be bothered to research the question". People put the banners up because they see other people doing it and it seems safest. That all of this would be so should hav…

Is that what really happens though? EU countries usually don't immediately punish violations unless they're particularly egregious. You're more likely to get a warning and a grace period to meet the requirements. So the rational approach would be to not bother with consent banners, GDPR and whatnot until you attract the attention of the regulators, at which point you should definitely hire a legal team that can tell…

"Just sign the contract, we'll never use that clause!"

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#577

Post by necovek »

glitchc wrote: post #484
rckt wrote: post #270

I get that too many regulations is a bad thing. But when we talk privacy and personal data there should be no gray zone. It has to be black and white. When I see a stupid cookie banner I search for "Reject all". There's no some data that companies can collect and process without my consent, they just shouldn't be able to collect anything without me actively opting in. Business never respects anything, but profits. Se…

Realistically speaking, how much are people willing to pay for email, communications, cloud backups, social media? This is the hard question.

They already do as part of their internet subscription at home and data plans on mobile.

ISPs used to provide email addresses for people, and it was part of the cost.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#578

Post by voidhorse »

taurath wrote: post #133
bsimpson wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's a changing of the audience or a change in how people behave generally, but this place has been insufferable lately whenever anything remotely related to Donald Trump's administration comes up. One of the things that made this place special relative to other online communities is the ethos to interrogate through a lens of curiosity. Now, there's a lot of vitriol that's indistinguishable from any o…

It’s a difference in values. To some, the ends justify the means and human life has no inherent value and the world is zero sum, and to some, a lying malignant narcissist deciding who lives and who dies is a personification of evil. To some people, it’s literally a choice between that “lens of curiosity” and their families lives. But people for whom politics has never directly impacted them past a few % up or down in…

precisely this. cool detachment or disinterested curiosity around political events is the privilege of those comfortable enough to believe current politics won't affect them. These same people are also usually ultimately responsible for the apathy/failure to act and stop meaningful regime change before it's too late.

I'd love to live in a world where one can neatly compartmentalize reality and view life-altering political shifts with "a lens of curiosity", but that isn't how the world works.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#579

Post by Karrot_Kream »

nomel wrote: post #506
bsimpson wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know if it's a changing of the audience or a change in how people behave generally, but this place has been insufferable lately whenever anything remotely related to Donald Trump's administration comes up. One of the things that made this place special relative to other online communities is the ethos to interrogate through a lens of curiosity. Now, there's a lot of vitriol that's indistinguishable from any o…

My rule for a sane HN experience: avoid and flag any articles related to Trump, Elon, , American politics, and anything tangential that summons them.

That's getting pretty hard these days. I did a query on Clickhouse and this year a full 1% of all comments on this site mention Trump.

Re: Europe is scaling back GDPR and relaxing AI laws

#580

Post by jkaplan »

prolly97 wrote: post #406
palata wrote: post #375

I don't get why people conclude from the cookie hell that "regulations are bad". If those goddamn websites got actual fines for those dark patterns, they wouldn't do it. The EU should just be stricter with the regulations.

I don't want an internet designed by lawyers and politicians. And I'm afraid that's what this level of regulation and enforcement would create.

Right, because an internet designed by profit motive is going great
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