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IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

haaretz.com

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Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#571

Post by parshua »

alkhatib wrote: post #208
originalvichy wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They can take out nuclear scientists thousands of kilometers away by either planting bombs in their cars in traffic or firing accurate munitions through their windows when they sleep. Thousands of kilometers away. The IDF can be highly sophisticated in their plans and methods when they want to.

Those things you described are also war crimes. Calling it sophisticated does not change that fact.

You do understand they actually targeted whole apartment blocks in Iran, right? 10s of civilians dead. Not so sophisticated. Just criminals.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#572

Post by pyrale »

tim333 wrote: post #304
xg15 wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Prior to this both sides were living reasonably peacefully in Israel and Gaza That's simply not true. Israel never gave up control over airspace, land and sea borders after the disengagement and effectively put the strip under siege after Hamas came to power. The west bank is cut up into hundreds of small Palestinian enclaves that are separated and controlled by the IDF. There is also a policy of systematically den…

When I said reasonable peacefully I meant not killing each other and quite a lot of people in Gaza were crossing for jobs on the Israeli side of the border. I wasn't say love and social justice reigned. When westerners and people like Bill Clinton have got involved they have mostly proposed having a Palestinian state with their own land but the Palestinians have mostly objected to Israel existing so we have the curre…

> but the Palestinians have mostly objected to Israel existing so we have the current stuff.

It was not the Palestinians who killed Rabin.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#574

Post by Bilal_io »

blablabla123 wrote: post #542
Newtonip wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a state founded on ethnic cleansing. People were already living there when settlers came to create an ethno-state for themselves. In late 1947, their militias begun a campaign of massacring and expelling Palestinians from mostly defenseless villages. These refuges pouring into neighboring Arab countries is what prompted the 1948 war. When the war ended, they murdered any civilians trying to return to their homes…

I don't think it's possible to understand the whole issue without taking into account how people fled into Israel, both because of genocide in Europe as well as prosecution in multi-ethnic yet predominantly Arab states. Germany being in an awkward position of being an economically dominant state but also having contributed to the whole misery. Also the US is far from neutral probably due to deeper ties that are just…

They fled into Palestine*, and later established the state of Israel. Saying they fled into Israel assumes there was an Israel to begin with, but there wasn't.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#575

Post by Bilal_io »

n1b0m wrote: post #390
alluro2 wrote: post #177

I visited Israel for a sports seminar some ~10 years ago and met many nice people. I felt sympathetic to their reality of living in an ever-hostile environment from all sides, and struggle to keep their place in the world safe. I admired their resilience and strength. When this Gaza conflict started, I saw how the Israeli protested against their government and demanded peace, so I thought there is a semblance of an e…

From the start of Israel’s assault on Gaza, the vast majority of Israelis haven’t shown any concern about the suffering in Gaza. Those who campaign for an end to the war do so purely as a means to secure the release of the hostages.

The civilians even blocked aid entering Gaza.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#576

Post by LePetitPrince »

bigyabai wrote: post #525
LePetitPrince wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Children are children. That's why we respond with abject horror when you see them hungry and huddled, riddled with bullets. If you have to prepend a nationality to "child" to justify it, then I regret to inform you that you are a racist. It doesn't matter whether it happens in Israeli-occupied territory or an American middle school. It's absolutely reprehensible. "stop killing children you dislike" or "stop targeting…

[flagged]

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#577

Post by beardedwizard »

keutoi wrote: post #554
beardedwizard wrote: post #506

Earlier quoted context omitted.

what evidence do you have to support that claim? I'm also baffled by the suggestion that democracy truly represents a majority and the apparent belief that dissent is quickly processed and rectified by democracy. Which country do you think shows this is working well?

It might be true that I am in a bubble and I am only hearing voices supporting these atrocities. Democracy need not represent the majority, but if it works against the majority without any repercussions then who is to blame? Will the leadership be held accountable? This war was started because the government knew they can get away with it. Every citizen is complicit in every crime committed by their government. Don't…

What specifically do you want individual citizens to do? Are you yourself complicit in everything your government does? Do you even know what they do?

Israelis are protesting, for better or worse this is what democracy looks like.

Another question to ask, does every Russian support the war in Ukraine? What can they do about it?

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#578

Post by avoutos »

keutoi wrote: post #534
froohmb wrote: post #375

[flagged]

Oct 7th is not when anything started. If this is just a response a terror attack, then should Israel be profiting from it? Will the Palestinians be allowed to go back and rebuild? Without a sense of proportionate response, if Hitler did some false flag attacks, do you expect the whole world to be okay with the Holocaust?

Oct 7th was certainly not the start of the conflict, but it was at a level of barbarity that one can not consider it to be provoked.

> Without a sense of proportionate response, if Hitler did some false flag attacks, do you expect the whole world to be okay with the Holocaust?

Can you explain this point? I don't think I quite understand.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#579

Post by atmavatar »

FireBeyond wrote: post #462
beardedwizard wrote: post #457

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? This comment strikes me as wild considering the exact same thing is playing out in America right now, and a bunch of people are making up their minds about "Americans" and what they stand for. The same has been true for Iran, only up until now (and probably still) we have always had a more nuanced discussion - its the Iranian gover…

> What are you actually expecting an average Israeli who does not agree with this to do? Funny you say this because you don’t have to look far for people saying that “Gazans deserve what’s happening” because the average Gazan should fight back against Hamas.

Some things to consider:

* The majority of the Palestinian population are minors (* The last nationwide election in Palestine was 2006

In other words, the last time an election was held, the majority of Palestinians weren't yet born, let alone old enough to vote in it. So, it's difficult to hold the Palestinian people en masse responsible for Hamas in the same way we'd hold Israelis responsible for their current government, who held their last election in 2022.

Re: IDF officers ordered to fire at unarmed crowds near Gaza food distribution sites

#580

Post by throw627004 »

maeil wrote: post #248
xg15 wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm German and I really see a lot of the blame for this on our states as well - the US and the EU states (especially Germany, sadly). As horrible as the Israeli mindset is, their subjective viewpoint is at least somewhat relatable: An ordinary Israeli citizen is born in that land, knows nothing else, just learns that the entirety of the surrounding populations want them dead - and will with very high likelihood exper…

I'm Swedish. Since I was a child, for decades, I was taught and never questioned the idea that Germany had learnt from their history, in the most admirable way. That it was really ingrained into the German culture to never let anything like the holocaust happen again. That the education system there was very good in really making people understand why it happened, what went wrong, and how to make sure there would be…

As a German, I think you should cut your colleague some slack.

There's 8 billion people in the world who aren't German. If there's one topic that Germans don't chip in on, it won't move the needle.

Whatever we as Germans say on Israel/Palestine will be taken the wrong way by someone. Critical of Israel? Still an antisemite! Supportive of Israel? Pathological guilt!

It super sucks, but I too will leave it to others to voice strong opinions in this matter. And there's no shortage of that.

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