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Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

nytimes.com

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Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#571

Post by scheme271 »

saalweachter wrote: post #461
virtualritz wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

It's not the only reason, but in general in American history, "why is this weird thing this weird way?" is usually answered in part by "racism". Avoiding public transit has historically been one way affluent white people avoided contact with poor people in general and black people specifically; underfunding or shutting down public transit in turn disproportionately hurts those populations. Again, not the only explana…

Oh, that's very much so. In new york, several bridges were explicitly designed by Robert Moses so that they were too low for buses in order to prevent public transit from getting to certain parks and beaches. In Chicago, several expressways were routed to separate "black" areas from other parts of the city.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#572

Post by ardit33 »

steadicat wrote: post #474
ochoseis wrote: post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re either exaggerating or don’t spend much time in NYC. Half of Broadway is closed to cars now, same with Wall Street. We have summer streets where they close many on weekends. Lots of dedicated bike lanes and a few isolated paths throughout the city. Could there be more? Sure. Are they completely absent? No.

I think we just have a different idea of what it means to be closed to cars. I live right by the stretch of Broadway you mention, so I’m very familiar. This is what it looks like: https://flatironnomad.nyc/wp-content/uploads/2022/05/4.2-Pla... There is no restriction of through traffic. Effectively pedestrians are still confined to tiny and overcrowded sidewalks. By comparison, here’s what a pedestrian street looks l…

Man, there are street that are closed to traffic, and you just are either lying or being dumb.

They just don't look like streets anymore, as they are turned into plazzas or parks.

EG: E25st at Lex, Baruch College is truned into a plazza/walkaway. No cars. 8th/st Saint Marks, by A Ave, is off cars, (It is part of the Tompkins park). Irvin Avenue is part of a park (gets interrupted by Grammercy Park)

etc...

There are plenty of places like that, but over time they turn into plazzas or parks, and you think they were not streets at some point.

Ps https://maps.app.goo.gl/Df6U3DkPpUxirG5B9

https://maps.app.goo.gl/ZivSNhiEnn2Q4pjr6

You can see throw time that it used to be a street at some point.

Anyways, there are plenty of examples like that. Just stop exaggerating.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#573

Post by danielthor »

tlogan wrote: post #472
virtualritz wrote: post #399

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's curious but unsurprising that privatization of public transport is considered an answer to congestion when existence of good (or great) public transport is the working answer one can find in many places around the world. When I visited NYC two years ago, I was blown away by how unbelievably bad public transport infrastructure is. The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center…

The decline public transportation, in my view, reflects a shift in priorities within the Democratic Party. Back in the 1990s, Democrats were more focused on tangible public services—things like infrastructure, roads, transit systems. Today, the emphasis seems to have moved toward issues like environmental policy, DEI, and gender identity. As someone who’s deeply frustrated by the lack of progress on projects like hig…

The Democratic Party of 2025 is the Republican Party of 1992.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#574

Post by listenallyall »

dml2135 wrote: post #556
listenallyall wrote: post #341

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New York State already has a major toll road (NY Thruway) and tolls to enter New York City. So do New Jersey and Connecticut, the other states you must drive through to enter New York City. The congestion pricing is a new charge on top of longstanding toll roads and bridge/tunnel tolls, so it feels like a new category and the start of something new, rather than being equated to "usage fees" as you state, at least in…

It's new yes, but the comment you are replying to asked how it is different . It's simply another toll.

The people's intense response - from supporters to opponents - plus the media coverage and political posturing, demonstrates that it's not "simply another toll"

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#575

Post by WalterBright »

Thlom wrote: post #378
WalterBright wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I can, I always take the stairs. It's usually vacant, while the escalator is packed. I used to work on the second floor. My colleagues would all push the button for the elevator, and wait, wait, wait. I'd be at my desk before they reached the 2nd floor. (Some of them were jocks.) In my 20s, I worked a stint on the 6th floor. I'd run up the stairs to try and beat the elevator. I'd poop out on the 5th and have to…

The only life advise I've ever taken seriously is to always take the stairs.

A friend of mine when I worked at Boeing advised me to always take the elevator, because one is only allocated so many heartbeats, and he wanted to conserve his.

He passed away from a heart attack.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#576

Post by ausbah »

isaacremuant wrote: post #444

Everything tends to optimize to benefit the rich. Just like tax incentives on expensive electric vehicles. Of course every other metric section is beaming but the one about affecting lower income is "it's too early to tell". It's not fair economics or policy making if it always skews one way. It's like "carbon tax to force people not to fly or move, while elite private planes are essential".

i think this is an issue with how flat fees are inherently a regressive tax. if you scale fees & tolls to be more income based the problem goes away

but also the current setup has income based exemptions / lowered rates

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#578

Post by vicnov »

The only issue with this tax is that I doubt MTA is capable of putting new revenue to good use.

Effectively we added a barrier to travel (this IS a tax), with some positive externalities for some people (including me), but whether that tax revenue will be deployed well is doubtful given MTA track record.

(Yes, it was/is underfunded; but also somehow everything is 10x of what it “supposed” to cost)

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#579

Post by tlogan »

TingPing wrote: post #515
tlogan wrote: post #472

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decline public transportation, in my view, reflects a shift in priorities within the Democratic Party. Back in the 1990s, Democrats were more focused on tangible public services—things like infrastructure, roads, transit systems. Today, the emphasis seems to have moved toward issues like environmental policy, DEI, and gender identity. As someone who’s deeply frustrated by the lack of progress on projects like hig…

This whole comment is insane but I’ll just say the last administration helped fund transit, but is of course being rolled back by the new one. https://www.transit.dot.gov/about/news/biden-harris-administ... https://www.transportation.gov/briefing-room/biden-harris-ad...

So what should I do?

How can I blame Trump for what is happening with public transport in SF and CA? Both CA and SF are 100% democrat for last 20 years.

Re: Changes since congestion pricing started in New York

#580

Post by richardfontana »

paddy_m wrote: post #538
richardfontana wrote: post #528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most flabbergasting thing was the absence of Metro ring lines around the center. The fact these have not been built, in 2025, when Metro transport networks in most cities are now over a century old, is telling. I'm having trouble imagining where a useful ring line could exist in the New York metropolitan area or within the city itself, given its geography, longstanding commuter movement patterns and other chara…

The Interborough Express is one example. Going from southern Brooklyn on the water up to queens. Previous proposals had it also connecting to the Bronx. If you want to be really ambitious, connect Bayridge to Staten Island and continue on with branches to Elizabeth and Bayonne. Up north, it's surprising there isn't rail from the Bronx, through Manhattan, across the GW Bridge to NJ. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inter…

That's not what I'd understand as a "ring" though. I guess something like that could be useful in providing an alternative to what's mostly been car options for travel between Brooklyn and Queens. Edit - your more ambitious idea could be a "ring", yes, but I'm not seeing how it would be especially useful. Why would it be helpful to provide a single line allowing someone in Bayonne to get to Jackson Heights, for example (given what are probably more pressing transportation improvement needs)? As a visionary means of facilitating a longer term integration of eastern New Jersey communities to New York City, maybe.
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