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Pope Francis has died

reuters.com

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Re: Pope Francis has died

#571

Post by gopher_space »

moralestapia wrote: post #505
diggan wrote: post #374

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Cambridge Dictionary has its own internal consensus, true, but there are so many more ways people understand that specific word :) Wikipedia even has it's own page with some of the various definitions people use: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definitions_of_knowledge Then we have implicit/explicit knowledge ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implicit_and_explicit_knowledg... ) where some people assume one of them wh…

[flagged]

> If 99% of people in the street can agree on the meaning of a word without much ambiguity then that's a good starting point

This turns out to never be true once you get into actual details. Try to buy blue house paint for a basic example.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#572

Post by senderista »

chaorace wrote: post #504
jimmcslim wrote: post #237

The Vatican published an interesting document on AI [1], which attributes a number of quotes to Pope Francis: * As Pope Francis noted, the machine “makes a technical choice among several possibilities based either on well-defined criteria or on statistical inferences. Human beings, however, not only choose, but in their hearts are capable of deciding." * In light of this, the use of AI, as Pope Francis said, must be…

I rarely feel this way about someone of Pope Francis' age and social position, but I've genuinely admired Francis as a thinker. He was a bona fide Jesuit, through and through. The next pope has big shoes to fill.

Benedict seemed more academic, but Francis seemed more humane.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#575

Post by chippiewill »

edm0nd wrote: post #573

Very interesting to see he has died after the tons of press the church was putting out about his health and he was "recovering" and "fine".

When you're at that age it's not uncommon to be on the mend from illness as then deteriorate rapidly again.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#576

Post by CobrastanJorji »

swat535 wrote: post #299

Pope Francis caused quite a bit of controversy among Catholics. From his crackdown on the TLM (Traditional Latin Mass) to his often unscripted, pastoral tone on issues like sexuality, economics, and interfaith dialogue, he unsettled many and yet drew others closer to the Church. With his passing, we’re left to process a papacy that disrupted in the deepest sense of the word. As a Catholic, I often found myself both i…

Terry Pratchett's classic book "Small Gods" has a section that is perhaps inspired quite directly by the Church, comparing it to a type of shellfish: "Around the Godde there forms a Shelle of prayers and Ceremonies and Buildings and Priestes and Authority, until at Last the Godde Dies. Ande this maye notte be noticed."

I think Pope Francis was committed to trying to dig through some of the shell to get to the godly bits of the religion, and this is deeply laudable. It was frankly weird to see the opposition to some of his seemingly obviously Christian stances. He'd say something like "I guess I don't really approve of gay people marrying, but I think we should be focusing on all of these suffering and dying poor people?" and then a bunch of people would bitch about it.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#577

Post by CobrastanJorji »

dctoedt wrote: post #382
heresie-dabord wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". [0] I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/...

> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". It's quite a bit above our pay grade to proclaim categorically who supposedly cannot be redeemed; it verges on blasphemy. Cf. Job. 38: 1. Then the Lord spoke to Job out of the storm. He said: 2 “Who is this that obscures my plans with words without knowledge? 3 "Brace yourself like a man; I will question you, and you shall a…

Absolutely, but Pope Francis said a lot of things that were absolutely core, canon, Catholic beliefs but still made a bunch of Catholics unreasonably angry.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#578

Post by QuarterReptile »

Mawr wrote: post #510
southernplaces7 wrote: post #381

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>There is no reason for one to exist so not having one is the obvious case. It's a usable supposition, sure, and I agree that being asked to prove a negative is silly, but you can't actually be sure that one doesn't exist. It's not the obvious case at all, it's not even all that obvious as a supposition. What's more, superficially at least, it makes more sense to believe in a supreme, essentially divine creator than…

> What's more, superficially at least, it makes more sense to believe in a supreme, essentially divine creator than it does to believe visibly enormous complexity deriving from a mostly unknown nothing. It can't make more sense to believe in one entirely made up thing vs another since they're both made up. > I'd say that this more than anything has been responsible for virtually all cultures in history believing in s…

>It can't make more sense to believe in one entirely made up thing vs another since they're both made up.

It makes sense to believe in Newton's laws, which he made up, even though we know the study of kinematics flowing from them is wrong. We have observed them being wrong. Someone else made up a complicated explanation of why and when Newton's laws are wrong. That guy's theories formed the basis for some incredible stuff that works really well, and he's probably wrong too... but I'll believe them both.

Re: Pope Francis has died

#579

Post by kergonath »

hylaride wrote: post #323
kergonath wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". Which is "interesting", considering how much of the New Testament is about redemption and reaching out to outsiders. Aren’t we all supposed to be God’s creation, and wasn’t Jesus supposed to teach us about salvation, redemption and forgiveness? (And by "interesting", I mean that it is yet another of example cognitive dissona…

> Which is "interesting", considering how much of the New Testament is about redemption and reaching out to outsiders. Aren’t we all supposed to be God’s creation, and wasn’t Jesus supposed to teach us about salvation, redemption and forgiveness? As religion has shrunk in participation in most of the west, it has become hugely susceptible to manipulation. My wife (now atheist, but grew up evangelical) often has to co…

> She quickly snapped back at me that "they actually see themselves in him, have you not noticed all the sex scandals that happen in so many churches?"

I think she is right for some of these people. It is a human reaction, but it is still a moral failing. The proper Christian (well, Catholic, anyway) thing to do would be what is expected in a confession: recognise one’s failings, express regret, and accept consequences, including punishment. Then comes redemption.

Something that irks me fundamentally with most Christian religions is how they believe that they are Good People because they accepted God and rejected Evil. It’s all good as long as you play the part. Once you start looking for excuses, you failed twice: first, because of your behaviour, and then for failing to repent. If you support someone because he made the same error you did, then you fail yet again. This behaviour is understandable, but trippy incorrect from a religious perspective and very hypocritical.

In the grand scheme of things, it is very easy to get forgiveness, you just have to be sincere in your regrets (again, for Catholics, which is what I know).

Re: Pope Francis has died

#580

Post by senderista »

hylaride wrote: post #327
codr7 wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mind explaining your issues with Kirill? Haven't really been paying attention. Wasn't he the one who got Russia into defending persecuted Christians wherever (Syria etc)?

Read up on him more. He's essentially former KGB that was originally assigned to keep an eye on the token remnants of the church in Soviet Russia. He's now saying the war against Ukraine is "holy and justified", signing up to fight is "guaranteed to wipe away your sins", etc. He's designed to manipulate a segment of the population. He's Putin's method to "religiously justify" whatever Putin wants.

The Russian Orthodox Church has been a Chekist front since Stalin revived it for nationalistic reasons during WW2. Kirill is just continuing the tradition.
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