He wasn’t an intellectual giant like his predecessor and I disagreed with some of his positions, but at the end of the day I do think that he was a good man. May he rest in peace.
Pope Francis has died
201–210 of 875 posts
Re: Pope Francis has died
#202We live in cynical times, i hope his passing reminds people that narratives and morals matter
I do agree that narratives and morals matter. That said is hard for me to reconcile this statement with the late pope's stance on the Ukraine war. His narrative about this was that it is a regrettable conflict between brother nations and that the sides should somehow resolve their disagreement. He didn't once admit that Russia is the aggressor and is one sidedly pushing for war, not to speak about condemning the aggressor.
I understand that a leader of an organization that acts on historic time scale might be reluctant to take sides in contemporary conflicts. Nevertheless always washing your hands in every conflict is not morality, it is cowardice. It enables evil and is in direct conflict with "narratives and morals matter".
Re: Pope Francis has died
#203Earlier quoted context omitted.
"telling Ukraine to "have the courage of the white flag"." Perhaps he should have told Russia to have the "courage" to stop murdering people.
do you think that would have even the slightest chance of changing anything?
No but it puts the ball on their court
Re: Pope Francis has died
#204[flagged]
Did you really have to make this comment here on this post? I think you intentionally wrote it to spark a fire as well. "systematically massacring tens of thousands with the declared intent of ethnic cleansing" You know yourself that so many people disagree with you about this and sees this as an outrageous claim.
It's very much not an outrageous claim, it is in fact the shared opinion of literally all non-partisan international organizations that have studied the conflict in any way - including the UN, the Red Cross, the International Criminal Court, Human Rights Watch, Doctors without Borders, and many many many others. And it is not unrelated to Pope Francis or his death, as he spoke about the humanitarian tragedy in Palestine just yesterday, in his last public speech.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#205Interestingly, [X has died] seems to be among some of the topmost upvoted posts of HN. (Based on https://hn.algolia.com/ )
I’m pretty sure that comments count as upvotes; if that’s the case, I find it a lot less surprising.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#206I genuinely liked him, even as an atheist. He seemed to be trying his best to make the world a better place and I can't fault him for that.
He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed". [0] I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism. https://www.npr.org/sections/parallels/2013/05/29/187009384/...
> He riled many of his flock and hierarchy when he said that "even atheists can be redeemed".
Which is "interesting", considering how much of the New Testament is about redemption and reaching out to outsiders. Aren’t we all supposed to be God’s creation, and wasn’t Jesus supposed to teach us about salvation, redemption and forgiveness?
(And by "interesting", I mean that it is yet another of example cognitive dissonance amongst fundamentalists. If anyone can be redeemed, it implies that atheists can, as well.)
> I will always applaud a person who retreats — even just a little — from dogma and fanaticism.
Indeed. He was not perfect but he was better than most. I hope the next one won’t be a catholic version of patriarch Kirill.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#207:( And for political side - in Poland, he was seen as way too leftist/liberal for the conservatives in Church, and too pro-Russian for the liberals in it - he had not condemned Russian invasion of Ukraine.
The concept of Liberal in the US is different from liberal in Europe. In Europe "liberal" means supporter of low taxes, small govertment. The concept in the US has to do with sexual liberation and sexual freedom more than economic marxism. Francis was not sexually liberal. He was marxist. He believed in liberation theology. As someone who knew personally the man from a spiritual exercises' house in Spain(obviously wh…
He was a man of hypocrisy:
Immigrants must be welcome as a moral imperative, but not in the Vatican!
Bigotry is wrong, except for the modern Marxist form!
Embrace the Progressive world view, but don’t talk about how we forcibly sterilized people!
Etc.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#208[flagged]
We detached this comment from https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=43750089 and marked it offtopic.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#209RIP. His speech yesterday (he dictated it I guess) was very very political, not on the usual level, felt like a finally "all out" for me. https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/messages/urbi/do...
Thank you for sharing a text that I would not have seen/read otherwise.
The salient parts that support your view:
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There can be no peace without freedom of religion, freedom of thought, freedom of expression and respect for the views of others.
Nor is peace possible without true disarmament! The requirement that every people provide for its own defence must not turn into a race to rearmament. The light of Easter impels us to break down the barriers that create division and are fraught with grave political and economic consequences. It impels us to care for one another, to increase our mutual solidarity, and to work for the integral development of each human person.
I appeal to all those in positions of political responsibility in our world not to yield to the logic of fear which only leads to isolation from others, but rather to use the resources available to help the needy, to fight hunger and to encourage initiatives that promote development. These are the “weapons” of peace: weapons that build the future, instead of sowing seeds of death!
May the principle of humanity never fail to be the hallmark of our daily actions. In the face of the cruelty of conflicts that involve defenceless civilians and attack schools, hospitals and humanitarian workers, we cannot allow ourselves to forget that it is not targets that are struck, but persons, each possessed of a soul and human dignity.
Re: Pope Francis has died
#210Pope Francis has done much to transform the Catholic church into a more progressive and inclusive institution. If not for his papacy, it was somewhat likely that the church would drift too far from Millennial values to keep its former relevance. Hopefully, the next pope will also champion unity, inclusivity, and peace, and oppose religious dogmatism. This will define the future of Christianity. Many challenges remain…
There's been much talk of the Church finally electing a black Pope from sub-Saharan Africa. The irony is that, if they are inclusive enough to do so, the selected Pope will almost certainly be more hard-line and doctrinaire than any of his recent predecessors on issues like homosexuality. Here's one of the contenders: