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U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

washingtonpost.com

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Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#571

Post by r3trohack3r »

nozzlegear wrote: post #554
reverendsteveii wrote: post #531

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't have to have a sound legal theory that will hold up in court. You just have to have a sound bite that you can vomit up when someone says "Wait a minute, isn't that blatantly illegal?"

> You don't have to have a sound legal theory that will hold up in court. What? Why? The natural continuation of "Wait a minute, isn't that blatantly illegal?" is "We're going to sue you to make you stop."

At least in the context of the presidential surveillance program, the ACLU did sue to make them stop. But the program was classified which made getting evidence of the program's existence a crime. The supreme court ruled that they couldn't make a decision without evidence. Shortly after, Snowden leaked the evidence the supreme court had requested. That leak provided the ACLU the evidence necessary to bring the case back to the supreme court and win, "stopping" the program.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#572

Post by LeoPanthera »

blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

While the US does have a written Constitution that explicitly limits government power (notably in the Bill of Rights), many other countries also have codified documents or legal frameworks that protect citizens from government overreach.

For example, Germany's Basic Law (Grundgesetz) was created after World War II to ensure the protection of human rights, including freedoms of speech, assembly, and religion, among others. In Canada, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms is part of the Constitution Act of 1982 and guarantees a range of civil liberties. India's Constitution, too, contains an extensive list of fundamental rights that are designed to restrict arbitrary government action, such as the rights to equality, freedom of expression, and personal liberty. South Africa's Constitution is also highly regarded for its strong emphasis on human rights protections.

Even in the United Kingdom, where there is no single written constitution in the US sense, many rights are protected by statutes (such as the Human Rights Act 1998) and established common law principles that limit government power.

Many democracies enshrine rights in law, reflecting the widely accepted idea that such rights are inherent and must be protected against undue governmental interference, rather than merely being granted as privileges.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#573

Post by GeekyBear »

switch007 wrote: post #532
elevatedastalt wrote: post #512

I feel Apple is one of the few companies that has the market power to say, Fuck you, we will just not sell or offer any services in your market, and I suspect that would be enough for voters to knock some sense into their government.

What makes you think they'll do that? Any previous examples? China maybe?

It is what Apple publicly said they would do if the UK attempted this.

https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66256081

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#574

Post by wrycoder »

drexlspivey wrote: post #563
blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

Did the US constitution protect you from NSA conducting mass surveillance on all US citizens like the Snowden files showed?

Constitution, yes - but following it, not so much. I would really like the Federal government to improve in that regard.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#575

Post by shwouchk »

sneak wrote: post #367
Lio wrote: post #273

I don't think the UK government would try to put Apple out of business if they don't comply it's more likely that they would just get heavily fined until they do so. The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. It's a weak proposition from the government because anyone with something to hide will just…

> The most likely outcome, I would guess, is that Apple just stop offering Advanced Data Protection as a service in the UK rather than create some kind of backdoor. First, these are the same thing. Second, ADP is already off by default so approximately nobody uses it. It is irrelevant from a privacy standpoint whether or not they offer it.

ADP is a relatively new thing. it makes sense to roll it out gradually both from engineering POV as well as marketing.

Further, as all other forms of e2ee, it makes you responsible for the encryption keys.

As a user on the platform I am quite happy it is offered. Considering that these days it is quite difficult not to have a mobile device associated with “you” (you open links sent to “you” on your mobile device? consider that device compromised from privacy perspective), id rather it be on the platform with stronger protections.

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#576

Post by booi »

eric_h wrote: post #543
afro88 wrote: post #523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The decision wouldn't involve just market size, but their Irish tax haven as well. They're not going to pull out of the UK entirely.

Their Irish tax haven is rather specifically _not_ in the UK.

yeah isn't it in... you know... Ireland?

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#577

Post by drawkward »

blindriver wrote: post #535

The US is the only country with codified freedoms from the government. Every other country has rights given by the government to their citizens. The US may suck every now and then, but the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

>the US constitution is one of the best things in human history. It protects us from governments like the UK that don't think they have any limits to control their citizens.

The next 4 years will certainly prove or disprove this statement!

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#578

Post by switch007 »

GeekyBear wrote: post #573
switch007 wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think they'll do that? Any previous examples? China maybe?

It is what Apple publicly said they would do if the UK attempted this. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66256081

Well that's just negotiation and PR. That's why I asked about previous examples - judge them by what they do, not say

Guess we'll have to see what happens in a few months

Re: U.K. orders Apple to let it spy on users’ encrypted accounts

#579

Post by drawkward »

GeekyBear wrote: post #573
switch007 wrote: post #532

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What makes you think they'll do that? Any previous examples? China maybe?

It is what Apple publicly said they would do if the UK attempted this. https://www.bbc.com/news/technology-66256081

Of course companies always do what they say they will!
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