Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

cnn.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

571–580 of 660 posts

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#571

Post by zoky »

RobotToaster wrote: post #505
tw04 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

> Too much stress? I bet if you paid people so much money that they could work for 10 years and then either retire to a lower paying job, or retire entirely, people would deal with it. Or pay people enough they can afford to work part time. A stressful job is less stressful if you only have to work 2 days a week.

I suspect this would probably be counterproductive, for a couple reasons. First, you’d be encouraging people to take on a second job with all of their free time, which would lead to more overall stress. But I think you’d also see a reduction in efficiency and overall quality of work when you’re only “practicing” two days a week, especially after five days off. I mean, when I come in to work after a long weekend, I can hardly remember what the hell it is I even do!

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#572

Post by lifestyleguru »

ta1243 wrote: post #528
lifestyleguru wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

With so many billionaires, the country certainly can afford paying more to people whose tasks are crucial for others' lives.

The reason there are so many people worth $1b instead of a poor $100m is because of the tax cuts diverting money from crucial jobs.

Waiting for the first trillionaire, that's when all billionaires will unanimously say "we have enough, let's start paying people more".

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#573

Post by Shinolove »

gamedever wrote: post #247
bloopernova wrote: post #32

(this is going to sound like I think this can be fixed with a technical solution. I don't) I wonder what the software UX is like for ATC, and if there's room for improvement? Is the software/hardware ancient? I'd hope that it is absolutely rock solid but knowing big custom projects I'm not very hopeful!

> this is going to sound like I think this can be fixed with a technical solution. I don't) Why? It's seems ripe for technical solution. Technical solutions have solved tons of things in the past. What's special about air traffic controlling?

ATC people are surprisingly resistant to change. They eat up whatever bullshit of a UI they are fed by the few companies producing that specialized software and when the time comes for a change they are too used to the old systems they want an exact replica. My current project is literally a huge ATC system and the more we try to bring in actual controllers for feedback the more we realize they just constantly yap about how they are doing it CURRENTLY in their ancient systems and ask of us that we make it the same. THEY ARE USING MICE WITH 3 buttons!

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#575

Post by Justsignedup »

legitster wrote: post #77

Everyone is going to make this about money or unions or etc, but my employer briefly worked with some ATC employee groups and I can tell you exactly why they are short staffed: - The FAA has strict hiring requirements. You have to be mentally and physically capable, and by their own admission less than 10% of applicants are qualified for the job. https://www.faa.gov/air-traffic-controller-qualifications - The trainin…

My uncle did ATC in the soviet military. They were allowed to do 2 hour shifts max. The mental work is so intense that the human brain can only sustain it for a short time.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#576

Post by farceSpherule »

You can thank Reagan for mess we are in with ATC's...

Reagan was looking for a reason to break up the government unions and the union overplayed their hand. So, Reagan fired all of the striking ATCs -- 11,359 -- and banned them from federal service for life (later lifted by Clinton).

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#577

Post by afavour »

marcusverus wrote: post #567
robertlagrant wrote: post #516

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. This was already addressed in the original post. Why write in this "spelling it out for you" style when they already addressed it? > Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other side. This is really reductive. There are multiple reasons: - very stable employment - very prest…

> This was already addressed in the original post. Why write in this "spelling it out for you" style when they already addressed it? The supply of labor for a given job is related to the market price of the job. This is literally ECON 101.

It's still a simplistic view. If you increase salaries the pay has to come from somewhere. Does that mean making flights more expensive? Or raising taxes? Either way it's not as simple as "just increase salaries, dummy".

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#578

Post by trimethylpurine »

DannyBee wrote: post #541
tw04 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do. The notion that if you just pay enough, people who are otherwise qualified will do anything, is amazingly reductive. It's a super US-centric view, and not surprisingly, it does not have an amazing history of working out (especially compared to other mechanisms). Given the people in question have good other options, why would they do this,…

>why would they do this, even if you paid more?

The complaints in the article were all about too many hours. More pay, more workers, less hours.

I didn't see anything about not liking the job. At least not in the article.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#579

Post by ryanmcbride »

DannyBee wrote: post #541
tw04 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything you have listed above could be solved with money. Only 10% of applicants are physically and mentally qualified? Sounds like you need more applicants? Want to attract more applicants? Offer more compensation. The training and onboarding is incredibly long? Sounds like a doctor? Do you know why people go through the pain of becoming a doctor? Because they make a lot of money when they get through the other s…

There are plenty of jobs that you can't pay people enough money to want to do. The notion that if you just pay enough, people who are otherwise qualified will do anything, is amazingly reductive. It's a super US-centric view, and not surprisingly, it does not have an amazing history of working out (especially compared to other mechanisms). Given the people in question have good other options, why would they do this,…

Maybe we should TRY paying people more. Like just once. Just to see what happens.

Re: America desperately needs more air traffic controllers

#580

Post by ch4s3 »

jessriedel wrote: post #403
ch4s3 wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand how this isn't a giant public scandal. Is there something I'm missing here?

The test wasn't explicitly discriminatory, just the way that it was used. And the way that it was used is disputed. The facts are still being litigated. All the coverage is from opinion pieces or right-of-center newspapers. https://archive.is/lDyOB

I don't think the WSJ was the only place reporting on it, and I don't think the fact that you consider them to be "right of center" means their coverage might be anything but factual here.
Post reply on HN