Earlier quoted context omitted.
How did Apple sell phones in the EU without micro-USB?
Common EPS was a voluntary standard.
So the idea that mandatory standards don’t halt progress because phones moved past micro USB is hogwash, then?
European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
571–580 of 622 posts
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#572Earlier quoted context omitted.
We're talking about firmware which is device-specific, which is why it has to be released separately for each device. Moreover, there exist devices with fully open source firmware, so if anybody wanted one to copy, they don't need yours. They only need yours to use it with your hardware.
But there is still a difference between software and hardware. This is like saying that for every hardware device I should be able to also spin up my own factory to produce it, and have that bundled into the purchase price.
I feel like you're missing the context.
These devices have a chip in them that needs drivers and firmware. That's software. In particular it's the software that interfaces with the operating system. But the software is specific to a given version of the Linux kernel. When a new kernel comes out, you often have to update the software, for which you need the source code. So when the vendor stops doing this without publishing the code, nobody else can cost effectively do it either, and you can no longer use the hardware with recent versions of the kernel. But older kernel versions have known security vulnerabilities in them, so you can't use those either.
The ask is not that they provide free factories for everyone to make their own hardware, it's that they release the source code for this software in particular. Anybody could then copy the software, but it's only useful in combination with their hardware. A competitor in China can't use the same drivers with some other chip, that chip would need different drivers. That's what drivers are. So the only people who want this code are the people who paid the hardware vendor for their product and want to continue using it.
The hardware vendor, by contrast, doesn't want to give it to them, not because they fear some competitor using it but because then the customer would be able to keep using the hardware they paid for instead of having to buy a new one. Which is unreasonable enough to prohibit.
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#573Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's hard to see it happening with how things work today. If companies had to do this they would make an effort to figure it out.
How? How exactly would they figure it out? As someone who works in hardware development full time, often supporting older hardware, I don't see how this is feasible. Most of the IP we work on requires 3 or more parties to be part of the NDA.
I have no idea. But I know it's not a law of physics so it can definitely be changed.
It's hard to see in the status quo, but it doesn't mean it can't be changed. Whatever system exists today works the way it does because laws defined (or didn't) how they operate. If we change those, the system has to change with it.
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#574Earlier quoted context omitted.
Quick glance at the docs suggests that it is two separate points in the legislation? https://www.europarl.europa.eu/RegData/docs_autres_instituti...
Can you point to what you mean? My understanding is that the regulation only concerns batteries used for transport, e.g electric scooters. Pretty much all vehicles sold as replacements for GHG-emitting vehicles.
>My understanding is that the regulation only concerns batteries used for transport
The regulation isn't about one thing. It talks about everything from stationary battery energy storage system to portable appliances and yes transport too.
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#575Earlier quoted context omitted.
My GoPro's are waterproof yet they have removable batteries. It's not impossible, but it does mean they have to be every so slightly thicker.
Waterproof with an external case.
No? My Hero 10 and 11 are both waterproof on their own up to 10m, as long as I use the included battery door (can’t use the optional doors that allow direct access to the USB port, or the media mod).
There is a dive housing that can handle up to 60m depth, but that’s a special case.
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#576Earlier quoted context omitted.
In a previous life I worked for Nokia...
They aren’t exactly things you carry around in your pocket. http://www.n2ltd.com/intermec-introduces-latest-rugged-mobil...
Better search more appropriate examples, all the way back to first models.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5210
They can even fit into a pocket!
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#577Earlier quoted context omitted.
Single charger is lovely: nowadays whenever I travel I carry a single charger; it charges: my laptop, my work laptop, my phone, my noise cancelling headphones, my wireless iems, my book, my watch.
You can get cables and small dongles that convert USB-C or micro to lightning etc. You're talking about a few-dollar problem. I don't want a fragile USB-C port on my phone. The lightning port is a joy to use - reliable both in terms of the retention mechanism and connectivity, and easy to clean of debris.
I can't think of a better example of "a few dollar problem" that adds up remarkably over time, though.
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#578Earlier quoted context omitted.
IP permissions, i.e., copyrights, are not natural rights, they are instead government "grants" of protection. And protection granted by government decree can also be taken away by government decree. So no "permission" to release would be necessary if government's modified ther copyright laws to withdraw their granted protections after some "event" occurred. The bigger problem is not the permission, it is actually fin…
The easy option would be to have a default law like "you open source your code 5 years after it was created for phones/tablets/cars/etc and it automatically applies to your suppliers as well and the necessary software tooling to get it working. If this requires hardware to program the devices, provide the blueprints of the devices as well". Then it would be understood and agreed that anyone making software they have…
They don't have to be ugly and plenty weren't.
Secondly, you put prioritise on asthetics over what's good for the planet?
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#579The problem is not really the battery anymore, it's the software mainly. It's all closed source and is often deprecated before the hardware is dead. Then the manufacturer makes it hard to unlock bootloaders; keeps drivers closed source and effectively bricks the device. For recurring sales are the backbone of modern economy so we must force obsolescence. Why would you want to replace a battery in a useless device? Pl…
> Please, EU: bring a law that forces manufacturers to release their drivers / firmware whenever they stop updating a digital device. I wish I could upvote this more. It's a crime how I had to throw away in the past perfectly usable devices because they were forced into obsolescence.
And I would guess by what now are "green" and carbon zero companies
Re: European Union votes to bring back replaceable phone batteries
#580Earlier quoted context omitted.
Are you thinking of a magsafe connector? A lightning connector definitely does have a little end that can snap off, and that in my experience (with children) is less robust than a USB-C.
No I’m talking about the port in the phone where you plug the cable in. With lightening the cable side is the fragile part, with usb-c the male part of the connection is inside the phone’s socket. This is the fragile part of the usb-c connection. It makes more sense for the fragile part to be on the cable rather than the phone itself because the phone is more expensive and would need a repair but the cable is cheap e…
Ahh I see. Makes sense. For what it's worth I think the USB-C port is still fairly robust because the fragile part is protected by the port, but I get what you're saying.